You are techY podcast

Ellen Twomey: You are listening to the You Are Techy podcast, episode number 42.

Voiceover: Welcome to the You Are Techy podcast, where it’s all about growing in your techy-ness so you can find the tech job of your dreams. And now your host, technology learning coach Ellen Twomey.

Ellen Twomey: This episode is sponsored by our new free training – 3 Steps to a Flexible, High-Paying Tech Job – The Dream Job Every Mom Wants. In it I’ll cover the requirements for a flexible job, especially if you are a mom, how to build your 6 figure salary trajectory, why tech is great for moms and why moms are great for tech. Join me this Tuesday for this helpful and fun free training – 3 Steps to a Flexible, High-Paying Tech Job. Sign up at youaretechy.com/3steps that’s -Y-O-U-A-R-E-T-E-C-H-Y.COM/ THE NUMBER 3 S-T-E-P-S

How are you? 

Liz Stanek: I’m good. How are you? 

Ellen Twomey: Good I have news. 

Liz Stanek: Okay. 

Ellen Twomey: It’s shocking. Sit down. 

Liz Stanek: I’m sitting. 

Ellen Twomey: You’re the only person who won’t be shocked by this information. 

Liz Stanek: Okay. 

Ellen Twomey: We’re going to have five children. 

Liz Stanek: Oh yay!!! Kids!!

Ellen Twomey: Today we’re talking to my good friend Liz Stanek. Liz is the co managing shareholder and founder of the law firm Stanek Lemon Crouse and Meeks. Stanek Lemon opened its doors about a year and a half ago. Prior to that, Liz was a patent attorney, shareholder and practice section leader for Ward and Smith. And before that she spent the majority of her career in the same role at Meyers Bigel.

She has an undergraduate degree from North Carolina State University in electrical and electronics engineering, and a JD from the University of North Carolina, Go Heels. Liz’s practice includes, are you ready for this? Preparing, filing and prosecuting domestic and foreign patent applications in electrical arts, including telecommunications, semiconductor devices and fabrication, power devices, circuit breakers, LEDs, medical devices, HVAC systems, optical coherence tomography OTC, microscopic systems, and designed smart grid related technology and related devices, imaging and software. Liz also counsels clients on matters related to intellectual property, including trademarks and assists with management appliance patents portfolios. I get a gold star for all those. Liz grew up in New York and she’s lived in Raleigh Durham since college. And she lives here with her hilarious husband, Steve and her five children. Liz, welcome to the show. 

Liz Stanek: Thanks. Ellen, I’m happy to be here. And now that everybody has been put to sleep by my background. 

Ellen Twomey: No, I think if I was like, can I get through all these things?

And I only know what half of them are, but that’s okay. That’s good. Let’s just jump in and talk about your career journey. How did you start off and how did you end up in patent law? Cause I think it’s a pretty rare thing. I mean, I knew one patent lawyer from my high school. I know very few patent lawyers. It’s kind of a niche field. How did you end up there? 

Yeah, agreed. 

Liz Stanek: Except for the fact that my father, you know, I am one of 10 children and when he decided at seven children that he needed to go back to law school, he was already an electrical and mechanical engineer. So at seven children, he went back to law school at night and became an attorney.

So I knew growing up what that was. Other people didn’t. I did. It was always in the back of my mind and I was always good at math and science. So it seemed like, you know. So when I started in electrical engineering at NC state thinking I would actually go into the lab at some point, but I spent two summers at Bell Labs was a technologist in the lab and decided I don’t want to be in the lab.

So I decided law school was the next step. There are four – out of the 10 children, there are four lawyers in our family, so it’s not uncommon. And my other brother is also a patent attorney. My sister’s a tax attorney. So, you know, it was this sort of in the blood I think 

Ellen Twomey: I love that. That’s such a great story because, I mean, I knew that about your dad, but I don’t think I remember the part that he went back to law school after seven children.

That’s a great story. Oh my gosh. That’s such a great story because you know, often we think we can’t manage balancing and making that transition. And that’s a huge transition that he made. 

Liz Stanek: Absolutely. 

Ellen Twomey: Okay. What made you want to take the leap? So you’re a patent attorney, you’re a shareholder, you’ve been doing it for a while, but about a year and a half ago, I remember you came and sat back over there and you told me you were starting your own law firm. What made you wanted to jump into that with your partner? 

Liz Stanek: So, for the first 17, 10 years of my career, I was at a very large patent boutique.

And that gave me an opportunity. I mean, when I went to law school, I had every intention of moving back to New York City. And so I clerked with, Kenyon and Kenyon. And I had an offer from Kenyon and Kenyon to come back to New York, but I had gotten a summer internship with Meyers Bigel, and they offered a very short partnership track and there were 13, I think, or 10 or 13 seasoned to teach me how to do this.

And I would be the only, essentially. So it seemed like an opportunity I couldn’t pass up. And my husband also was anti New York City. So between those two things, as you know, he is not a city boy, so we decided to stay here. And for that period of time, it really worked for me. I didn’t have kids yet.

And then once I had kids, I was blessed to have them allow me to do an abbreviated schedule in the office. So I could be here with my kids as you know, I drop them and pick them up from school now. But even back then, I only worked in the office from like eight to two. I worked at night and got it done.

So, but after a while the firm got a little too big and I felt like I wasn’t really having the autonomy to move around the way I would have liked. So me and three of my partners who have been partners my whole career went to a multi-practice firm thinking that, you know, patent practice might actually work in a large firm because we could cross-sell each  other.

And Ward and Smith was wonderful to us, but it was sort of like running your own firm within a law firm because you were doing something different than most of the other attorneys and the cross selling opportunities were not as big as we thought they might be. So we were essentially working for the clients we brought with us, inside the firm managing our own firm. And so the same three partners that came with me from Meyers Bigel, we started Stanek Lemon Crouse and Meeks on February 18th, 2019. And, it has been wonderful. I mean, it’s just been. You know, I’ve always wanted to do this. It’s ours. We control who comes in, who comes out, what goes, I mean, it’s, it’s, I’m a control person, so that makes me very happy.

Ellen Twomey: That’s why we’re friends Liz!

Liz Stanek: That’s right. It really has been very, you know, interesting for me to start from the ground up. I mean, starting with payroll and healthcare and furniture and trash and shredding, like all of those things that you don’t think about when you work for a larger organization. 

Ellen Twomey: Right. So this begs the question, cause I know a little bit about your firm, but I think you are a little bit different in that you’re headlining partners are women, right? You’re a women owned firm. 

Liz Stanek: We are. So beyond starting our own place, you know, Shawna is female and she’s also African American and she is Shawna Lemon. Other partners are male. But we have been working with them forever. But we decided that we wanted a place that was welcoming to all people.

So essentially large law firms, if you know anything about law firms, they talk about, you have to work a lot of hours and you don’t see your family and essentially to make anything out of it, you’ve got to be working all the time. You can do what people call mommy track or part time, and you can work less.

And you essentially just get what you get for the 30 hours you’re putting in. And if you’ve ever worked part time, you know there is no part time. So you essentially end up working full time. 

So even though that didn’t happen to me, even though Shawna and I both actually worked full time, never went part time, made partner on time.

We saw the opportunity for diverse candidates, not just women, but men who want to coach their kids’ soccer teams, or people who want a life outside of the large law firm structure that we could maybe provide that. And, you know, honestly, the more people you have at your table that are different, the better your profits.

So, so if you have a table with everybody looks the same, you don’t get any differentiation. So we decided since Shawna and I were female, we decided, okay, we’ll make this a female minority owned firm and sort of target that in our recruiting to bring people in who are, I mean, a very broad definition of diversity, right?

Not just gender and color, but just diverse needs. We did that and we became a member of WBENC in June of 2019 and became members of the National Association of Minority and Women Owned Law Firms in December of 2019. So we are both WBENC and NAMWOLF certified, and that has been really great to get exposed to those other law firms that are there, not a lot of IP firms, because most intellectual property attorneys are men. It’s a different place for us to be in this sort of world of women and minority owned businesses and law firms, because we’re so used to  big law. And this has been a great experience for us to be getting to  know these other lawyers in the same environments and what they’re doing with that.

Ellen Twomey: I love it. I love all that. And I was literally just talking about that topic about diverse perspectives. Cause we talk about that in technology and design all the time, too, right? It’s not about like, Oh, design it one way. When you have diverse perspectives, you’re going to have a more empathetic viewpoint and then be able to really come at it from just a better end result. So I love that. Okay. So this is an involved question, but I want to provide some context and I know, I know this is always a hard question for me because  it’s just my life. So I’m going to ask you about – it’s just your life, but we have many listeners who want to understand how a mother of five can have such a substantial career while being a great mom.  And I’m going to jump in here and say that you’re my good friend. I know you personally as an awesome mom, you also volunteer at school. You might be the most, you might’ve logged the most hours of volunteer work at our school. I don’t even know how you do that. So I know that a lot of times people marrying kind of all these concepts of like, wait, no, no, no, you can’t. And I think if you follow other people’s rules, but if you create your own path, as you’ve just been describing to us, but I want you to tell the listeners, how do you do that? 

Liz Stanek: Again, like you said, you know, it’s my life. So it’s just, you know how I do things, but  I think everybody’s different and everybody’s capacity to handle stress and things that are going on in their lives is different. I tend to be a compartmentalizer in a, where I’m at is what I’m doing. So you meet me at school. You won’t hear about what I’m doing, what I do.

And a lot of people don’t even know I was a lawyer until they knew me for a long period of time. Cause I just – I’m there to be a mom. I’m there to be a room mom. I’m there to be a volunteer. So I do compartmentalize quite a bit, but the biggest thing for me is find out what is most important to you and always be true to that.

So my family comes first. So when I make decisions on what I’m going to do with the rest of my life, I always say that. So like I tell people – I’ve been in recruiting my entire career and people come in and try to hide the ball about what’s going on in their life. They don’t want me to know they have children.

They don’t, it’s like, no, no, no. Tell me, because what’s the point of taking a job when they have all these expectations and then when you get there, everything’s just not true. Right? So I’ve always been very upfront about what’s going on in my life. So when I got pregnant with Alex, I went to the partners and said, Hey, I want to – I wasn’t a partner yet, I was an associate. And I said, I don’t plan to be here from you know, six in the mornings at nine o’clock at night, once this baby comes, but my work will get done. And so always be taking steps and, you know, I didn’t just wake up with five kids. They come one at a time and they sort of, what’s it like, you know, Ellen, once you have more than a couple, they sort of, I mean, this whole quarantine thing has been amazing because they have friends built in the house.

So it, sometimes it makes it a little easier. Right. So I tell people that and they think I’m nuts, but really, I mean, they all go to the same school, so I dropped them all off. Well, starting next year, I’ll have to, I got a high schooler. Oh my gosh. And then when I get to work. That’s where I’m at, you know, I’m focused, I get my stuff done.

And then 2:45 or more like 2:55, I run the carpool, pick up, and then I’m mom and, you know, it’s just for me, but just because it works for me, doesn’t mean it works for everyone. And so I think it just, you have to really be realistic about what your strengths and weaknesses are, and only commit to that. You are sure that you want to commit and don’t overcommit.

I have a huge problem with overcommitment and I’ve been working on that for several years now trying to say no. When I’m asked to do something that I don’t like to say no, when somebody asks me to do something, but after time it’s just gets me so stressed out. I have to say no sometimes. And I think you just need to know your own limitations , a day to day thing for me.

Ellen Twomey: Right. Right. And for us, when we see something that isn’t working, right. Like you’re talking about overcommitment and we want to fix it. Right. Like that’s, that’s my biggest struggle. You’re like, no, no, I could actually make that better. 

Liz Stanek: Yeah. I could do that, but it’s not my path. 

Ellen Twomey: Right. I think that’s super interesting because you have such, I mean, and you know, my podcast is all about tech and the women geting in tech and is as technical as you get.

And it’s just an interesting perspective that you could take this undergraduate degree and then do something. Like you, you talk about tech all the time, all day long, but you’re a lawyer. And so I think it’s really interesting. So I think actually a lot of people don’t know what patent law is. And I’m wondering if you can dive in a little bit more about what it means and – like your services, I mean, I went through them in there. Okay. I’m laughing. I was laughing. I was laughing. I think technical things all the time. But like, can you give us an example, you know, without breaking attorney-client privilege, but like what, what do you do? What does a patent lawyer do and why do people need your service?

Liz Stanek: So a patent lawyer is generally someone who has either an engineering – well, they have to have an engineering or science background to be, to be patent barred. So we’re one of two types of lawyers that have to take a second bar exam. So we take a bar exam to become a licensed attorney, and then we take a second bar exam, which is a patent bar.

And you get a registration number. And a lot of people don’t know that you don’t actually have to be a lawyer to write patents. It can be what’s called a patent agent. If you have the technical, you have to have a specific technical degrees that followed by to sit for the bar, and then you can become a patent agent.

You get the same registration number that I have, like mine’s 48568. That’s my number. And you get one, but it would say patent agent instead of patent attorney. So you can’t do opinion work and other kinds of, you know, the law side of things, but you can write patent applications and get them allowed for the patent office as an agent. So essentially what we do is we meet with people who invent things. You know, a lot of times it’s companies, I worked for large companies like Xylem and Leica. Xylem is census that they do electric and water meters and the internet of things, connecting all of those things.

And then Leica, they do, obviously everybody knows what Leica is, but I work for a biocogen, which is the optical coherence tomography people. So they do microscopes and scanning systems and things like that. But I also meet with your average, you know, an inventor that says, Hey, I came up with this idea that’s really cool. And you know, so, so it can go from one end to the other.

It can be, you know, a client that sends me 30 applications a year to a client that just walks in the door and says, Hey, I have this really cool idea for this phone app, you know, so it can be all of those things. And so the reason we need a technical degree is because we need to sit down with that person, understand what their invention is when they tell us and then be able to say, okay, Here’s what’s out here already. 

Cause a patent, and if anybody knows, but to get something patented, it has to be new. It also, it has to be non-obvious, which means it can’t take two known things and just combine it in an obvious way. So that can be hard that the 103, which is the non-obvious rejection is a lot harder because sometimes, you know, you have the argument that it wouldn’t have been obvious to combine it.

It’s a hard argument because sometimes, but anyway, so we meet with the inventor, we get those technical details about what they’re doing, and then we tell them, okay, we see this part of it as being new. And then we may even do a search what’s out there. What’s on the internet. What’s already been filed in the patent office.

And then we write the patent application, which is exactly what it sounds like. It’s a technical document, which is why we need a technical degree that describes from start to finish how this thing works, what it looks like, how it works, what signals come in and out of it, you know, what’s the output and why it’s better than anything else that’s out there. At the back of the patent application there’s a bunch of numbered sort of sentences, and it’s essentially how we define what your invention is. So it’s like with real property, you have somebody do a survey and put the lines on your property. Well the words at the end of the patent application, tell us about your property, your intellectual property.

And so that’s what we do. So we work with the inventors, we write those applications and then we file them with the patent office, 95% of the time you get a letter in about 14 months to two years later from the patent office that says this isn’t patentable and here’s why. And then you have to argue back and forth.

That’s where the lawyer sort of comes in. You need, you will argue back and forth as to why it is patentable. And so a lot of times that involves  those numbeedr items at the end of the specification. Okay, well, this one’s yellow, mine’s blue. So you add that recitation to your claim that says, okay, now they don’t show a blue one. Now obviously it’s more detailed than that.

And then eventually, hopefully you get the patent. And that patent is good for 20 years from the time it’s filed, 20 years from filing and that makes you be able to – no one can make, use, or sell that invention for that period of time. 

Ellen Twomey: I thought patents s were like seven years or are those different patents?

Liz Stanek: Nope. Design patents are 15. And design patents is just how it looks. So you can get design patent, so a lot of times when it’s a fanciful kind of machine where it looks a certain way, we’ll get a design on that. That’s 15 years from this, but the utility patents, which is what we do most of the time, the ones that tell the function of the invention are 20 years from filing.

Ellen Twomey: So do people ever try to do a patent on their own? Can you submit a patent? 

Liz Stanek: So you can do it pro se they call it without attorney. In my experience, it doesn’t go very well. A lot of times I get like the pro se inventor comes to me and says, now, what do I do? I filed this thing. And we have to fix it because a lot of times there are a lot of technical things you have to do in a patent application that somebody sitting around doesn’t know, like, for instance, you have to have everything that’s claimed in those numbered paragraphs has to be shown in a figure, everything it has to be shown. People don’t know that everything in the patent application has to be enabled, which means somebody of skill in the art reading it would be able to actually practice your invention.

People who are just kind of, hey, this would be a good idea. I’m writing it out on a piece of paper really don’t understand it. Technical details that need to go in that are involved in writing that application. 

Ellen Twomey: Yeah. That’s super interesting. Yeah. I can see where someone would try to do that and be like, yeah, actually I probably need a little bit of help. I learned a lot there I didn’t know. I didn’t know a lot of that. Okay. I’d like to ask another family question before I finish up with my last one. So I feel like I’m jumping around a bit, but that’s okay. That’s just actually, I think people would be very interested in what your husband does and I’d like you to tell.  Tell us what he does. 

Liz Stanek: How were we going to get through this without that Ellen? 

Ellen Twomey: I wanted to, but when I said her hilarious husband, Steve, what I mean is he’s always cracking jokes. That’s how he is. Which is good. He brings the light side, but he has kind of an interesting career track and he does a couple things that I think they’d be interested in both sides of it. Do you want to share with us a little bit? 

Liz Stanek: Okay. Well, I mean, I honestly, when you asked me about how you do it with five children, I honestly forgot. I mean, he’s amazing. So, I mean, I couldn’t do it without him and he’s, he’s crazy. And we love that about him. He is an amazing partner and he is there. I mean, we truly share the raising of our children in so many ways and he provides so much that I can’t. So I should have said that earlier on, so Steve, I apologize if you’re watching this, but you’re the best. Anyway, so, but yeah, so he is an electrical engineer. So we met in undergrad. We met in physics lab and I’ll let him tell you that story, but

Ellen Twomey:  How romantic. 

Liz Stanek: Yeah, exactly. He said he came over and sat next to me because I had my graph paper and my protractor, like, he’s like, okay, I got a good lab partner this time, it had nothing to do with it. I was that I was the only girl in the room, but that’s ok. 

So, but he is – and so he’s an electrical engineer, but he’s always been interested in things outside of engineering. He’s very – he’s always loved animals. And when I met him, he had like seven different things living in his bedroom. Iguanas, hedgehogs, snakes, you know, all of that.

So, and over time he has had several side businesses that sort of go along with that. At first, it was worms. He sold  – he had a North Carolina worm farm. I think if you Google that it’s still there. He sold different types of worms for vermicomposting and fishing and all of that. And we actually had his property in Holly Springs where he – these worms were like, whatever he does to grow the worms and all of the things. So, and that sort of turned into to more of a farm. We had guinea hens and chickens and all of this kind of stuff. And then it got to be too burdensome to have all those animals far away from our house.

So we bought a new piece of land and built our house on a piece of land where he could have all of his animals. And so now he has started what’s called Fiddle Tree Farm and he makes goat milk soap products as well as lotions and other things that don’t have the, you know, the fragrances and preservatives and things that cause harm to people.

He’s very aware of environment and how those things and chemicals and things and how they affect your body and your health. And he makes his own oils and all that when you’re sick. I think you once, you got one of his potion when you had a cold or something like that.

Ellen Twomey: What’s the potion called? 

Liz Stanek: Elderberry syrup 

Ellen Twomey: Elderberry. Yes. 

Liz Stanek: Yeah. So he makes his own elderberry. He also has this thing that has garlic and onion or something that’s supposed to ward off all kinds of things. And so he’s really into that. So, but we have on our property, we have chickens, ducks, rabbits, pigs, goats, dogs, and all of these things.The pigs are our newest addition and the reason for the pigs I’m told is that we want to eventually have cows. So the pigs will rut and create the soil that we need for the cows. And then we can add the cows. So that’s, that’s the extent of my knowledge, but this is what he does in his spare time. 

Ellen Twomey: So this is hilarious to go out to dinner with these two and then Liz, doesn’t even like, you wouldn’t even believe, she doesn’t even know everything that’s going on on the farm.

Sometimes we can tell her, cause Steve will post it on Facebook and you know, and this is his passion, but I have to say like the goat milk – what’s the black soap that I use? The charcoal one. 

Liz Stanek: Yeah, the truffle one. 

Ellen Twomey: I use it every day. That’s the best thing on earth. In fact, mine went out and then I stole Reagan’s, but she had another one.

So we’ll have to re-up on that, but I mean, it’s like, and I’m not even, I’m not as aware. I’m more like you, I’m not as aware of what chemicals are going in or what, but like I just know a good product and the thing lasts forever. It lasts so long which is really great. 

Liz Stanek: It’s been, I mean, again, it’s not my thing it’s his thing, but I have noticed with all this hand washing with COVID, we keep the goat milk by the sink and I have not had to use hand lotion. 

Ellen Twomey: Me neither. 

Liz Stanek: It stays that way. 

Ellen Twomey: Yeah. It’s so good.

Liz Stanek: And then without the fragrance – a lot of people can’t do fragrance because it irritates them. But with the essential oils, you can get a fragrance without the irritation. And so that’s really been nice for some people as well.

So he’s – his thing – he’s having fun. 

Ellen Twomey: And I know my dad struggles with skin conditions, psoriasis and similar. And so I got them like the, you know, like the lotion thing or whatever, like the whole basket for Christmas and it just works great for him. So that was good. Okay. We sound like a commercial.

How many animals? Do you know how many animals you have onsite? Like if you had to add them up, I know we’re always doing the count, but I didn’t know about the pigs. Those are new. 

Liz Stanek: There are four of then, so Lily would know exactly. If you count the new babies, so we just had 11 baby rabbits in the last few weeks, probably 20 plus rabbits.

There’s probably 12 or so goats, gosh about 15 chickens maybe, four pigs. We have three dogs. So I mean, whatever that is, I mean, it’s like something on that order, but we’re also now expecting any day now a shipment of little tiny chickens, which are meat chickens. And so that’s a different prospect.

So we get these tiny baby birds and they grow to full size within six to eight weeks. And then he processes them and puts them in the freezer for our, you know, our chicken eating kind of thing. 

Ellen Twomey: That’s definitely what Kevin, what my husband would volunteer to help with. And yeah, and I think he’s very seriously like to help with that. And I would really like to know nothing about that. 

I don’t want to know anything about that, but he definitely thinks, yeah Kevin thinks Steve is a genius. I just don’t want him to spend too much time together. Cause I don’t think I’m ready to move to the farm yet. Although it’s funny cause we only live like 10 minutes apart. It’s not like you live so far off. Right. Okay. 

And then for our last question, I just want everyone to hear that because it’s so interesting and unique and different, and it’s great that you guys are, you know, kind of living your life. I love it. Doing your thing. 

I always like to ask my guests this because I think it evokes like this kind of nostalgic reflection, but what advice would you give to a woman, especially a mom who’s considering a career returning to the workforce? So maybe she’s stayed at home or she’s in a career, but she’s ready to transition to something demanding like technology. What advice would you give to her?

Liz Stanek: I think, I mean, just to repeat myself a little bit, just be honest about what you want with yourself first. Because a lot of times I have several friends that are doing that now, and it’s like, yeah, before we had kids and all this, you know, the demanding hours in a building, those kind of things, it wasn’t a big deal.

But now even if you’re just working a normal 40 hour job that doesn’t allow you to leave for plays in the middle of the day, or go on field trips or whatever, those things are important to me. Now, some moms don’t want any part of that and that’s fine too. I mean, you have to be honest with what you want out of your life.

And then when you go interview for those jobs, be honest with them, because the worst thing you can do is put on this thing of, Oh, you know, I never have to leave this and that. And then, you know, you’re either not going to leave because you said that or you’re going to leave and they’re going to be like, why did she leave? She said she would never do that. So I think the days of having to take a position that’s not what we want to do because we want to work par, time has gone. I think there are a lot of positions out there for women who want to work while the kids are in school and have something to offer. Like I said, giving me 20 hours of her time is going to be way more useful to me than somebody, some young kid who comes out and gives me 40 hours of nothing.

You know? So as moms, we’re taught to be efficient. We’re taught to be what’s important. And we know I gotta be here. When I get to work, I know I’ve got six hours since I have to go get them. And I don’t go to lunch. I don’t, I don’t stand at the water cooler. I get it done. And I think my advice would be, be honest with yourself.

Be honest with your employer and don’t think you can’t do something, don’t – it’s something you can do, don’t talk yourself out of it before you try. Because I think a lot of times things we think we’re not good at are things that, it’s really just society telling us, well, you can’t really do that cause you’ve got to pick your kids up at 3:00 or whatever, but it can be done if you want. But I also think that, you know, if you’re going back to work to prove it to somebody else, then that’s also a bad idea. So I think you’ve got to do what makes you and your family happy and you know, it depends on your partner or whether you know, that person can move their schedule around to make sure – so if I have a meeting at three, Steve picks up the kids. It doesn’t happen often, but I’m able to shift that that way. Now if you have a husband that can’t do that, you know, that changes your options. And be honest with yourself about what you want and don’t undersell yourself for what you can provide. 

Ellen Twomey: Right. No, I think that’s great advice. I love it. I think that too often, we find ourselves,  going into the interview and trying to impress somebody when what we really need to do is connect and make sure we find the right – kind of the right good place. And there are so many opportunities where you don’t have to give up those things that are important to you.

Like if a work environment doesn’t let you go to your kid’s show like that’s rough, you know, I mean, I don’t feel like anyone really – mom or dad – should have to really do that. 

Liz Stanek: We spend a lot of time as women especially apologizing for our family. I’m sorry I have to do this or I’m sorry. Well, don’t apologize.

That should be your, I mean, for me, that’s my number one priority. The nurse calls and it’s not one of my girls which is usually a ridiculous thing, but if the nurse calls me, I’m packing my stuff, I’m going to get my kids. And I can work from home, but I’m not going to apologize for that because honestly, sometimes the opposite, if you say I’m just going to sit there and let my kid lie in the nurse’s office – if I had the ability to go get him, that could be perceived poorly by somebody too, you know, you don’t ever know who your audience is. So just be who you are. If you got to call grandma to go get them great, that’s great, but I’m not going to apologize for my family ever. To be honest,  growing up, I thought I’d have kids and stay home now. That was my goal. I wanted to be a mom and I don’t know how I ended up here. I am a mom. But I also have these other things that I do. And I think honestly, knowing, you know, me Ellen I’m crazy OCD. And so I think that having my job to put that OCD on makes me better, because I am not crazy OCD on my kids. I mean, sometimes I am, depending on the day, but they generally pretty well adjusted. And that’s a lot of Steve, because as OCD as I am, he’s the opposite. Right? So everything’s just chill with him. And it provides a really good balance on who we are and what our kids are going to end up being. 

Ellen Twomey: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. And I would say, I don’t know if I would say I’m OCD, but definitely like controlling and overbearing.

And I for sure use work to balance myself out because otherwise, I mean, we’re both like up in our kids’ business all the time, so it’s like, it’s good for us to have that. My kids love that I’m working. They’re very comfortable with that choice.

Liz, this was so fun. I knew it would be.Thank you so much for joining me here today. I know a lot of our listeners are going to be really inspired by your story and just grateful to hear the advice you have for them and what they’re capable of. So thank you for coming. 

Liz Stanek: Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Ellen Twomey: Hey, if you enjoyed listening to this podcast, you have to sign up for the You Are Techy e-mail list. Imagine being in the tech job of your dreams. Join me to get the strategies, training, and never ending support to get tired. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y-O-U-A-R-E-T-E-C-H-Y dot com. I’ll see you next time!