You are techY podcast

Ellen (00:00:00):

You are listening to the You are techY podcast, episode number 166.

Voiceover (00:00:10):

Welcome to the, You are techY podcast where it’s all about growing in your techy-ness. So you can find the tech job of your dreams. And now your host technology learning coach Ellen Twomey.

Ellen (00:00:27):

Hey moms, are you trying to break into tech? Are you wondering what skills you really need to get hired and how those skills can be worth $45 an hour? Not that $25 an hour you thought when you first started thinking about going back to work? If so, then the You are techY membership is for you. Our combination of courses, coaching and community, come with a mentor support. You need to keep moving forward into your tech career. It’s like no other membership available. We have the exact skills employers are looking for. You learn how to maximize your income with portfolio ready skills that hiring managers are seeking, not to mention the steps you can skip. So you don’t find yourself down that endless tech learning rabbit hole. Join me as we walk you step-by-step through the getting hired process in tech. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I can’t wait to see you in our membership.

Ellen (00:01:16):

Welcome to the show. We are talking about how to found a tech company and this is a special episode because I’m actually letting you in on a speech that I gave to the Women in tech group out of the Atlanta Tech Village And the speech is called Your Techie, how to Found a Tech Company When You’re a Non-Technical Founder. And the idea was given to me, I mean obviously comes out of your Dicky, but also Catherine O’Day of Atlanta Venture Partners had the idea that more women need to hear this message. And so a big thanks to Hilton Thompson who runs the Women in Tech program at ATV for inviting me to speak in March in Women’s History Month. So I felt very honored to do that and it was on March 8th, international Women’s History Day.

Ellen (00:02:08):

So that was super fun. And my girls were there. It was very cool. My older two, not Gwenny cuz you know, she’d just come running up. But I really just had a blast talking about one of my favorite topics. And I just want you to note how many similarities the getting hired process and the founding a tech company when you’re a non-technical founder, how many similarities there are to the mindset, to the stages and the phases. It’s just very aligned and we see a lot of the same challenges. And so I thought this letting you in on this speech would be really helpful and em empowering to you and to my students who are so excited to start their own ventures. I hope this gives you that push that you need and the next steps forward. Enjoy

Hilton (00:02:53):

<laugh>. Uh, it’s nice to meet you guys. My name is Hilton Thompson. I am head of events at a startup called Xenia, but I’ve formally Penn events here at Atlanta Tech Village. When I left this role, I said I’m keeping women tech. I can’t let her go. So I am, um, just holding on to you guys forever. Um, we’re so glad y’all are here. Raise your hand if you’ve been to a Women in Tech meetup before. Yay. Welcome back. How many of y’all is this new? Yay. So many new faces too. I love it. Welcome Ron. Applause for getting out of the house. That’s kind of hard.

Ellen (00:03:26):

Woo.

Hilton (00:03:28):

Okay. I know it’s hard for me. I’m like, do I have to line up my hair washing schedule with an event? So obviously I did not today. Um, but I’m so glad y’all are here. We started this thing in 2017 as a way for women to just come together if we can’t do any better if we’re doing it on our own. So it’s better when you have people behind you. So get to know the people at your table. Connect intentionally. See how they need support. That’s my favorite thing to ask. How can I support you at the end of these things so we can walk away on each other’s teams, but y’all don’t wanna listen to me talk. That’s not why you’re here. Y’all here to listen to Ellen. Ellen is so fun. Katherine oday, who’s sitting back there introduced us and I’m like, your energy is my new favorite thing. So y’all are in for a treat. She brought trampoline. So the energy, might you notice the room? I have no idea what that means and I shouldn’t afford a dress if I knew that was <laugh>. Um, but y’all have a ton of fun and I’m gonna bring up Ellen.

Ellen (00:04:26):

All right. Um, first I just really wanna thank Hilton, um, for number one inviting me but also just for bringing women together on a regular basis to talk about tech. Can we get a quick round of applause for Hilton Thompson? And then quick shout out to Catherine. She did not just introduce us. She actually had the idea for this talk. And um, I wanna say it’s unique, but actually other people have also approached me about this concept. So I know we need it. I know I hear this all the time. We are gonna talk about why you are techie and why you are the perfect person to start a tech company even if you don’t feel that techie. And so I’m gonna walk you through that.

Ellen (00:05:16):

We’re also gonna talk about why believing you are techie will help you be a successful founder regardless of the industry that you’re in. So what I mean by that is what you don’t wanna do is walk into your tech company and say, okay, I am the expert in this field and I’m gonna find someone who knows about tech and they’re gonna do the tech stuff and I’m not techy. And so that doesn’t mean that you have to write all the code. There is a wide range between understanding and believing that you are techie and executing on all the code. There’s a whole wide gamut and I’m gonna help you understand not just why you are techy and why you’re the perfect person to start a tech company, but I’m gonna arm you with the information that you need so that you can make the smart techy decisions as you move, move forward growing your tech company.

Ellen (00:06:10):

Now I understand that not all of you are planning or have started a tech company today yet. But the thing is that it really is important for you to believe and understand that your expertise is something that can be made into a tech company, can be a revenue stream for your business, can be um, if you’re in technology that you encourage other women to be in, um, to start a company or to add, add a side hustle. And so by believing and understanding these concepts, you’re gonna be armed with the information that you need instead of some of these, um, mental hurdles that are, are not actually true or not actually impactful in your career. So what I’m gonna do is show you how to make the ultimate shift from struggling to believe you’re capable of being an expert in technology to streamline your decision process so you can launch the tech product of your dreams.

Ellen (00:07:08):

That’s what we’re gonna talk about. So, um, I’m Ellen Toey and I don’t know why people think my personal life is really interesting. So I am a mother of five. We jumped on trampolines at home. A couple of my daughters are here with me today, <laugh>, so they can tell you. Yeah, they’re literally are five. So the four of them, um, are up there. This is Reagan’s number one and mjs number three, but I try not to number them two boys. And then we strategically plan an eight year gap, um, before we had Gwen, which I’m sure makes a lot of sense. So, and she’s a little older there, so, um, oh, I did the whole thing with the mic. People will say, um, you know, who will go on this journey with you? So that’s a picture of my husband Kevin. Yeah, he’s still standing and we’re both, we’re both founders.

Ellen (00:07:54):

We’ve been married, um, 21 years. I had to think for a minute. We’ve been together 25. We both grew up in Detroit, Michigan, but most recently we lived in North Carolina and we only moved to Atlanta about nine months ago. And I can tell you that we are finding Atlanta to be a fantastic home for us. Little bit about my professional life because this will help you understand why I’m a person who can give you the information that you need. Um, cuz there are a lot of voices out there. There, there’s a lot of, um, information to parse through in technology. And so my undergrad is actually in computer science. So I started my career as a developer at Accenture and then I worked as a teacher, um, at the high school level as um, a teacher in technology and engineering. So ap, computer science, things like that.

Ellen (00:08:45):

And later, uh, I’m kind of skipping ahead through some things, but later I also worked as a designer and then I have a community and a podcast with the same name. You are techie. So I’ve been talking about this concept for a while that helps moms and women gain the skills and confidence to get hired in tech. So I really like to promote, um, all the learning that’s involved in technology and we’ll talk a little bit about the techie mindset next, but it is very pervasive in women to think that there’s something tech is just not really for us. And I wanna be so bold as to say that’s actually not an option anymore. Any career that you have, any company that you start, you are going to need a certain amount of te knowledge. And so I don’t really care if you majored in math or science, it’s not really important.

Ellen (00:09:32):

Understanding the technology integration in your life is gonna really empower you and be, um, important. So, um, I am now the managing director of Fugitive Lab. So we focus on shipping and launching products and I’m gonna talk a lot about that today because when you wanna start a tech company, one of the most important things is to actually get your product out into the world. And I can tell you as you’re talking to a lot of founders and potential founders, that is no easy task, okay? Wanting to have something out into the world thinking that you can put something out into the world. These are great starting points, but actually putting it out into the world, shipping and launching takes a very specific focus and it takes a lot of touchiness. So let’s talk about that, the techy mindset, okay? I am more than aware that the interwebs are a flutter with lots of mindset talk.

Ellen (00:10:31):

Okay? I know, I know all about if you just have the right mindset, right? Well, what I’m gonna talk to you about today is much more than the mindset, but this is permission to play. So if you come into starting a tech company thinking, just like I was talking about before, and you think, okay, I’m the expert in, um, health, I’m the expert in finance, I’m the expert in, um, whatever name, name your industry, and then I just need a technical co-founder, or I need that someone to do that tech thing for me. That’s the place where you get into trouble. It’s not that you won’t need help as a founder, you will need help, but you are w going to want to associate yourself as being techy even if you are the non-technical co-founder. And so the techie mindset is really about three things.

Ellen (00:11:25):

And I’ve kind of seen a lot of this in and out and I can tell you this is my definition from my own experience, but I can tell you it’s pretty consistent throughout. So if you, you need to first believe that you are techie. And that’s really tricky because you might be thinking, I don’t have a lot of evidence to show that. So then the second thing you need to do is to take action around that touchiness and that’s the next thing that I’m gonna talk about. So you say, well how do I take action around that? I write a line, line of code. No, that’s not necessarily true. Okay, I’m gonna go into Figma and start doing my designs. Maybe, maybe that’s one thing you need to do, but there are lots of ways you can do it, but you need to take action on that belief that now we’re moving along, uh, along the techie mindset line here.

Ellen (00:12:11):

The third thing you need to do, and this is obviously the hardest part, is that you need to, you’re going to come up against what we call in tech roadblocks, okay? On the agile, on the and agile, um, software development, we call them roadblocks, challenges, hurdles, whatever. As you come up against those roadblocks, you need to go revert back to I am techie. So your brain might be tempted to say things like, I don’t know how to do this, so I’m stuck. There’s nowhere, there’s someone else has to know the answer. But in fact, overcoming that hurdle through your own learning is the key. And essentially you might come up against the same hurdle again and again, but if you learn what you did right and what you did wrong, that’s what’s going to be foundational in getting you over that roadblock. So we’ll talk a little bit more about that.

Ellen (00:13:08):

But the techie mindset is, I just wanna say one more time, it is possible for all of you, even if you were an English major, that’s okay. You still get to be techy. I say so and no one can tell me that you are. So it’s important to really believe that and move through with action on that. All right? So just take a minute, even if you’re not starting a company yet, just take a minute, maybe even close your eyes. Can you imagine what it would be like for you to contribute meaningfully, maybe even powerfully to your family’s bank account by breathing life into your product vision? Just take a minute that is possible for all of you here today. And I want you to think about what that would mean for you, for the world, for your family. It’s really important for you to think that you are someone who can bring a product into the world.

Ellen (00:14:08):

So how can I be a non-technical founder without apologizing? And I find this slide really funny because I just told you, you are techy, so you’re not allowed to say you’re non-technical. And it’s very hard to live my life around a lot of women. I mean, when I’m here it’s great, but all the time people are like, I’m not really that techy. Ooh. I’m like, I think you said it in front of the wrong person. So now I gotta give you a lecture while you are techy. But the non-technical co-founder doesn’t mean you’re not techy, it just means that you’re bringing an expertise outside of the technology, um, platform, right? And technology is solving a lot of problems in the world. So the first thing I wanna tell you is that in your own career, in your own, um, professional or personal life, there is a problem that you have encountered.

Ellen (00:14:57):

I can, I can bet on that there’s something that bugs you, that comes back to you that you think, you know what? I really don’t like the way this is done in the world. I really think that I have a unique take on it. And so to be clear, most software has already been built, most software has already been built. You’re not gonna come up with a completely different idea. That’s not really the point. The point is that you have a unique perspective on that idea that it’s going to touch people’s eyes and be maybe more, um, maybe it’ll feel more comfortable to them. Maybe it’ll feel more like the way they view the world. So it’s really about the unique perspective that you have. So when you come into that, and again, without apologizing, you are going to want to have a, a certain amount of technical knowledge around it.

Ellen (00:15:50):

Now, um, I’m gonna talk later about some very specific technical things, but the reality is that the specific problem that you’re solving is going to be, you are going to be the expert of that. And the reason is not because no one’s ever thought of it before, but because no one’s ever thought of it the way that you have. And as you start a company, you’re gonna be fixating on how to solve that problem in a way that really no one else is thinking about it. And so you become the expert in the approach that you have. And that approach is going to become what we call product vision. So that’s why I say that I’m very confident that you are techie and that you can be a non-technical co-founder without apology because you’re going to know the answer to your own problem. And make no mistake, tech is about getting specific.

Ellen (00:16:46):

Okay? The other way that you are going to be a non-technical co-founder without apologizing is I just wanna give you a few examples because I love tech. I have a lot of energy around it. I think it is super fun and interesting, but no one ever said it was easy, okay? No one ever said, Hey, if you really want an easy life, go start a tech company. I know you’re gonna love it. No, but you are going to make an impact and you are going to um, make I think 1 billion, right? Catherine it’s 1 billion. So, or more than a billion or more multi-billion dollar could be a multi-billion dollar, like three or four or 10, 10 billion. So this is important, and I know that sounds crazy, but let’s face it. I mean one of the reasons that we start a tech company is to have an impact on the world, but it’s also to impact a lot of people.

Ellen (00:17:34):

And so when you have a multi-billion dollar company, you are impacting a lot of people. And I think that this is one of the things that we don’t talk enough about is that you are, um, when you have a technology in the world, the scalability is infinite, I guess. I don’t know. We’ll see if we can find the end of the internet. But the the whole point is that you’re going to have a large impact and you’re going to make be making a lot of money, but you are going to work for that and it’s going to be tricky. And so one of the problems that I see happen and oftentimes with women is that they don’t know the answer. They’re not exactly sure what that’s gonna look like. And I can tell you from starting more tech projects than I can count, you don’t know what it looks like at the beginning ever.

Ellen (00:18:18):

You don’t ever know. You don’t know what the path is gonna look like. So I just wanna tell you a few founder horror stories just to kind of make you feel better, <laugh>. And so here are a couple of founder horror stories, but they’re not horror stories. They’re actually beautiful stories that help you to understand that, that this is just the way that it is. I’ve known founders who have hired six different tech teams before they actually launched their product into the world. I’ve known founders who have um, spent four years and $400,000 on a product that doesn’t work. And you might say ouch. Well that one didn’t focus very much on learning, okay? You have to learn from your mistakes. I’ve known founders who have paid co-founders to go away because they needed to start from scratch and to really build something even <laugh> better.

Ellen (00:19:04):

We got, we got some smiles in the audience, okay? So if you think that you’re gonna get it right the first time, I hope that you do. But if you do not, that is not a reason to stop. Okay? So I talked a little bit about this, but essentially you are the expert in the problem that you are solving. And even today, if you’re, if it’s just like a little baby seed, that’s okay. That problem, you are going to be fixating that in a way that no one else is. And so that is a very powerful thing. I just wanna pause for a minute cuz I took out a slide that I still kind of like, but I really wanted to keep it shorter. <laugh>. And essentially you’re going to get a lot of advice, gonna be a lot of people out there telling you why you’re wrong and why you just don’t quite get it or you’re not thinking about it the right way or mm, that’s cute, okay?

Ellen (00:20:00):

Or you’re adorable. I don’t know. I get that one. I don’t agree, but you know, anyway, so the point is that you believing that you are the expert and then spending time on that and then overcoming hurdles that you didn’t think you could overcome help you to be a better technical, even if a non-technical, a better tech founder. And the reason is because tech is about being specific. That’s why it’s so hard because there’s so much out there and it’s so general and there’s so many right answers, but you have to know the right answer for your own product.

Ellen (00:20:36):

And in case anyone hasn’t told you this, I’m here to tell you that your product needs to be out in the world. You deserve to put your product out in the world. You don’t need anyone else’s permission. It is absolutely possible for you to put that out into the world regardless of your education, where you come from, how much money you have, how much money you were raised with, none of those are factors. It is important. And I actually beg you to put more products out into the world. I don’t think it’s quite possible to explain the impact that you can have when you design something from your perspective. But I can tell you that it’s gonna impact our children, especially our girls. So let’s get techie, okay, who are your customers? If you didn’t think that was gonna be the next slide after, let’s get techie, don’t worry about it.

Ellen (00:21:35):

I’m gonna explain exactly what I mean by that. So I talked about how tech is being specific. You need to know who your customers are to start, I don’t know why I always use Facebook. I hate Facebook, but I have a lot of Facebook stories. So Facebook, okay, he started with um, college students, that is who his customers were. That is not who his customers are today, I would say his customers now are like our moms, our aunts, right? And they share the pictures of it, right? That’s exactly. So, but who are your customers to start with? Your customers down the future? That’s everybody in the whole wide world. That’s how we get to billions of dollars. But when you start, who are your customers? What is their pain? Okay, this one I spend way more time <laugh> on what is their pain than you, uh, than you would like to know.

Ellen (00:22:20):

Okay? But anyway, so who are this way I do this. Who are your customers and what is their pain? And what is the intersection of that? And then remembering that what is their pain in terms of the problem that you’re solving? Which might sound obvious, but it’s not because the pain can be adjacent or get bigger very, very quickly. And so you need to have this narrow focus. Why Ellen? Why do I have to have this narrow focus? I’m gonna run a billion dollar company. Going back to what I said before, because you actually have to ship and launch a product in order. This is kind of a cyclical thing. You gotta launch the product in order to scale. And so making sure that you actually launch means you have to know who a subset of your customers are, what their pain is, and then the solution that you are going to solve, the unique perspective that you are going to solve that pain with.

Ellen (00:23:10):

So you want a brief description of this, but you want it to be descriptive, okay? And so when you have your solution, what you’re really doing is creating your product vision. So this is where you can be as involved in the technology development. Let’s see, this is super involved or you can be high level, but your product vision is still there because you are describing the unique way that you approach this problem. And then you’re also gonna wanna know how you make money. Yes, money is fun and great and I hope, I really believe all of you should be very, very wealthy. Um, and that’s fantastic. But knowing how you will make money is also part of your product vision. That’s also how you’re going to know the right specifics, the hypothetical right specifics that you’re going to launch with and then learn from and then iterate on.

Ellen (00:24:11):

So unless you are growing an engagement platform where you just want as many users as possible and then you’re gonna run ads to them in order for you to keep going as a founder, and in order for Catherine to give you a lot of money, which I know she wants to give to all of you, you’re going to have to earn revenue from the people that your customers that you’re serving. And how are you going to earn that revenue by giving them something of value that they wanna pay you for. But I wanna say this again, I’m not talking about marketing here. I’m talking about product vision and understanding what components and features of your product people are most willing to pay for. And my friends, I’m here to tell you, you’re probably gonna be wrong the first time you do this. It’s really hard to get it right, but you know how you get it right?

Ellen (00:24:59):

You launch, you see what they like, and then you get information and then you iterate on that. So that’s an important component, but you’re going to wanna know how you think, how you think you’re going to make money, what your customers are going to actually pay you for, because that’s what you’re gonna wanna have in your mvp, your minimum viable product, the thing that you actually ship and launch. You wanna know what key components you’re gonna be paid for. Okay? So this is, this is one of my, this is my feature signature. I might have to like trademark this or something. I don’t want you to go down the tech building rabbit hole, that’s what this is. Stay out of the tech building rabbit hole. How do you do that? Let me remind you, you know who your customers are, you know what their pain is, you know what the problem you’re trying to solve and you know how you’re trying to make money ish.

Ellen (00:25:49):

And then you ship and launch and then you learn. And so the tech building rabbit holes when someone’s like, Hey, how about if you build it like this? I think you should build it like that. I just wanna add one more feature that is what is going to prevent you from being the successful founder that you can be. Now that is all tech. I understand it maybe doesn’t feel like tech except for the little ones and zeros around the rabbit, but it is because before you talk about that stuff, the other questions don’t really matter. You can’t just say what’s the best way to build a tech company? Guess what? Lots of right answers. There are lots of right answers in that. Okay? I can say I like it my way and and you can say you like it your way and we can both be right?

Ellen (00:26:36):

So if you say to me, what technology do I use to build my SaaS company, I am going to address that even though there are lots of great answers, and I don’t know if this has occurred to anybody, I mean just maybe, but <laugh>, I get this one every other day. How much is this gonna cost me? How much is it gonna cost me? It’s not free ladies, it’s not free. I know, but the factors, so here’s the answer. Depends, you’re welcome very much, right? But I’m gonna walk you through what it depends on because a lot, a lot of the things that we just talked about are going to impact it, but the better you define your product, the less money you can spend. What, how cool is that? So if you’re like, Ellen, how do I actually build the technology? What’s the best way to do it?

Ellen (00:27:28):

Well, here are a few different ways that I’ve seen people do it, right? You can do a no code solution. I work at a custom development shop and I’m here to tell you that’s a viable option. You can build a no code solution, launch into the world’s your MVP and generate revenue and have your, have your, um, you know, your, your product market fit identified, and then you can build a custom solution. But do understand that you will respend that money. And I’m not saying that that’s good or bad. There’s, there’s at a, there’s really a lot of ways to go about this. And if you wanna make sure it’s product market, that’s great. It’s still time and energy to do a no code solution. And you’re probably still gonna pay someone to do it. You might have a low code solution. You might know a college student.

Ellen (00:28:15):

My nephew just graduated from, um, undergrad. He’s, he’s got a degree in computer engineering. It’s fantastic. I actually had an impact on him. It’s so great. If only you’re a woman. No, just kidding. But anyway, so you might know a friend who’s learning to code. I mean, I’ll be honest, that one scares me a little bit. But ma I mean they might know, they might, you might have a friend who’s like, Hey, I’m learning this and you guys wanna go through it together. I’ve heard of, I’ve heard of great stories with that. Okay, you might find an offshore team, you might have a a tech co-founder, or you might have an outsource onshore team. Those are just, it’s not every single option to you. But if you’re like, where do I even start? It’s a pretty good list. And remember the slide we just talked about?

Ellen (00:29:01):

How much is it gonna cost me? I think you can see this is going to vary greatly how much this costs you the difference in this. And hopefully, hopefully your technical co-founder’s the most expensive. That’s what you want. You want your technical co-founder that you give equity to be the most expensive option on that. That means you’ve been really successful and you don’t really care. But it really depends because what you’re, what you wanna do is, if I haven’t mentioned it 12 times yet, is ship an MVP and get information out there. Um, so how quickly you get it right is important. And this also means how few of iterations you go through. So, um, you can say, I wanna be patient and take my time and make all the right decisions. But one of the things that I think why I’m drawn to tech is that, um, it’s not surgery.

Ellen (00:29:52):

I’m not a doctor. If I make a mistake, you’re not dying. And my husband and I will say that a lot of times we have a rough day. It’s like, well, you know, nobody died. We didn’t kill anyone. So if you are like in a field where it’s highly volatile and people can die, if you make a mistakes, you make a mistake, you need to realize that’s not what tech is. Actually the biggest problem is not taking action. It’s actually a very action-oriented thing. And you want to, you wanna get it right quickly. And, and so the most important thing is to make a decision and move forward. All right? So this is a fun one. Um, I wanna share with you that one of the biggest reasons I see women either not found or not scale their tech companies is because they failed to do this one thing.

Ellen (00:30:39):

And I was at lunch last week talking with a friend. She’s in marketing, it’s very easy for us to say, right? Um, but the reason is they don’t invest in themselves or their products. And when I say that to you, I wanna emphasize how painful I know this can be. And so let me share a story with you. It also has to do with Facebook. Again, I don’t know why. So when I first started running ads for my company, I had to, I started by spending $10 a day on Facebook ads. And that $10, I can like, feel it right here in my stomach. Like that was so uncomfortable to spend that $10 a day. It was one of the hardest things I had to do. And you might be thinking it’s just $10, Ellen, but it was really hard because I was just sending it, giving it to Mark Zuckerberg.

Ellen (00:31:26):

I didn’t know what he was gonna do with it, right? And what I learned is that as I went through and I iterated and I made my ads better, and then I ran my company and I, and I understood my, my customers more, and I, I got some learning and, and made my ads even better. And then I felt really good about what I was doing and that I was gonna bring the right people in. I found that spending thousands of dollars was not really a problem for me. And so what I can tell you is that if it’s hard for you to invest in yourself or in your product, start start somewhere and start elevating. But I will tell you that sometimes trying to save a little bit of money is a lot of headache. And it might just be worth it to spend a little bit more.

Ellen (00:32:15):

It’s an investment in your time, in your time is worth it. I tend to see women and if this is not true for you, awesome, awesome. But most of the women, me included, we like to just work harder. We just think that working harder, we’ll just do more. We’ll just add more. But that actually slows you down. And remember what I said, it can feel like a lot of money, but the quicker you go go, that’s actually how you’re gonna save money. Okay? Well, what if you don’t know? What if you don’t know what your ads are gonna do? I assure you I had no idea if my ads were any good. I did not know they weren’t. I can tell you no, they were not good, but the last ones were good, right? But you don’t know what to do, right? I I, Ellen you say college student or technical co-founder, I don’t even know if any of these are gonna work for me.

Ellen (00:33:01):

I understand that. And this is where I go back to, we’re not, it’s not surgery, we’re not doctors. We need to make a decision. You need to make a decision and be willing to be wrong. You will probably be wrong. And then this is the other piece about investing in yourself is that you want to be willing, you need to be willing to spend money to learn. And my husband actually gave me a great tip. He’s like, but they might buy a course because I’ve been telling him for years that women just buy course. They buy another course. So buy another course and hey, I bought some courses. There’s nothing wrong with it. But really you should only buy a course if you know that it’s addressing the specific product issue that you have. And as soon as you get into the weeds, at a certain point, you’ll be too detailed to do it.

Ellen (00:33:47):

And so I want you to be willing to learn from experience, learn from experience, just like I did with my Facebook Edge. You have to spend money and learn what people pay you for, what they give you money for. That’s what they care about. All right? And then, um, this is so important. Oh my gosh. Learn to ask better and better questions. So I’m actually gonna help you with that. I’m gonna give you a foundation for questions to ask. But, but it’s just the starting point. Then you’re gonna, again, with your product, you’re gonna learn what is a better and better question to ask. Because a, but start asking because as a beginner, there’s nothing you need more than iterations. You need iterations on what? Everything. Customer discovery, building your prototype, building your product. You need iterations. And when you are not sure what to do, when it feels overwhelming or confusing, just do the one next right thing. Don’t worry about the piece of advice from someone. Just do the one next right thing that is going to move your product closer into getting an v MVP out into the world. All right, let’s get specific I would need, I need a quick drink here. So when we talk about tech and I talk about how you are getting really specific and becoming an expert on your own product, now we need to get specific about the tech.

Ellen (00:35:13):

And again, knowing that there are a lot of right answers, let me give you some specific questions that you can ask as you go through this process. Literally, you can ask these questions as you’re deciding who’s gonna build your technology, how involved you’re going to be. Here’s a, here’s a very technical question. What architecture should my product have? And again, it’s not, not that I, Ellen am here to say this is the architecture that your product should have, but you should talk about that. And you should know and you should understand why it’s important for your product. Even though it might not be as helpful for someone else’s. Um, you should know which hosting service is best for your product. A lot of them can work. We, we view, we use AWS and, and, and Google Cloud and, and it’s, there are a lot of right answers, but sometimes the right answer might be okay, my tech partner knows this one really well and they know how to make it efficient.

Ellen (00:36:11):

Okay, what does my prototype look like? And who is going to design it? So this is an important piece. I talked about this earlier. How when you know who your customers are and what the pain is and your unique perspective for solving it, your product vision is in your mvp, your product vision is in it, but the prototype. So you might wanna design your own prototype. Figma is a great tool for that. But you might also wanna pay someone if you do design your own prototype, I do recommend at least getting a little bit of assistance on um, UX design or product design. I’m a little bit biased here cuz of my background, but it’s also, it’s a little bit helpful to have that. But you can design the whole thing. So knowing where you wanna fall on that spectrum in terms of how it much input you wanna give, that’s great.

Ellen (00:36:55):

But remember that your product vision will be in that regardless. All right, last question on this slide and then I got another one. Do I trust my development team? If you are feeling like you, whoever that is, you may say that’s just one person. That’s okay. If you are feeling like there is a problem, like something is just not there, you might be tempted to think you’re not technical, you don’t get it, there’s something wrong. No, it needs, it’s a trust factor. It’s not a knowledge factor. Moving on to the next question. Do I trust my development team? Did you catch that? Not a typo. It’s the most important thing. And if there’s a problem as you’re building your mvp, I want you to think about that and think about why you don’t trust them. What’s going on? What other information do you need? And it doesn’t mean they’re lying to you, it just means there’s gotta be a good fit to move you forward.

Ellen (00:37:50):

Okay, here’s a great one. Here’s a great one. Can my code be easily maintained after I built it? So after I build it? So you might, someone might say, oh, you gotta have elixir. The performance is really fast, it’s super slick. That’s the programming language to use. And then you can’t find an elixir developer for less than $500 an hour. All right? So know who’s gonna maintain it down the road, build, build for the future. And then again, how involved do I wanna be in that process? I talked a little bit about that with the prototype, but you might wanna learn how to code. I have known founders who have learned how to code in order to build their technology. That’s, that’s something that boot camps do. They, they train that that’s a valid option. That’s a valid option, but it’s not the only option.

Ellen (00:38:32):

Okay, this one I think is really, um, helpful. Have I gotten several specific quotes on my tech product? Not opinions. Not opinions. If someone just says, you really should use this, no, you really should use that. And they’re not willing to spend the time to understand your product and the way that you’re gonna bring it out into the world and your unique perspective and to say, this is how much, this is how much it’s gonna cost you. This is the input that we’re willing to give. If they aren’t willing to do that, they’re just not a voice you should listen to because they’re just throwing something out there. They don’t know enough about your product. I’m sure they’re not ill intended, but it’s important for you to parse that out. That alone will give you so much information and really help you with it. So I wanna get really specific people are saying, you might be thinking, okay, but like what does it really look like to build a SaaS product?

Ellen (00:39:25):

A SaaS technology? So I’m gonna give you one example and this is what we do at Fugitive for most new products. But not all, not all just, just most there are exceptions. And again, there are lots of other ways to do this that can work really well for you. But this is one way. So we tend to use aws, not a hundred percent, but a lot. We know some features that our custom architecture can, how we can save money on it. Um, people will say AWS is so expensive, you know, cuz you have to spend money. It’s like Facebook ads. You really just have to know the strategy. And Google Ads, everybody adds. You have to know the strategy to know how to reduce costs. We use MongoDB, no JS React, which is a JavaScript library and an html, CSS and js. And so if you, if you go out this and you show this to someone, I, you’d only have to show like 10 technical people.

Ellen (00:40:15):

And somebody would be like, Mongo doesn’t scale. Mongo does not scale. They’re liars. They’re liars. Well, the thing is, you have to know how to use it and it does scale. We have had clients on it for 6, 7, 8 years and only if you have certain other requirements outside of, uh, and, and there are millions of users on that, on that technology. So there are only if you have other requirements for your product that you wouldn’t use Mongo. So this is important to know, this is why I say people are gonna have a lot of opinions about it. Only talk, only listen to those who are willing to spend time and understand your product and your product needs. All right? So lots of right answers. I’ve said that a hundred times. But where you feel uneasy when you ask a question and you haven’t quite gotten the information that you want, that’s where I want you to dig in.

Ellen (00:41:12):

That’s why I say you are techy. You have to believe that you have enough technical knowledge to ask and answer the questions. And if there’s something that doesn’t feel right to you, I am, I guarantee you, I guarantee you there’s a problem. Maybe you haven’t communicated something effectively, maybe your team hasn’t understood it. Maybe they don’t have the skills. But if you feel, feel uneasy about something, it’s not because you need to go home and learn how to code over the weekend. Just dig in where you feel uneasy, that is gonna guide you really far in this process. And then remember back to this, your product needs to be out in the world. So I um, I used to talk to, I’ve heard this a lot of times where women will tell me I’m not technical, I don’t even know how to use the remote.

Ellen (00:41:59):

Um, and that I’ve heard it multiple times. And I can tell you my son knows how to use the remote better than I do. I think better than my daughters. He uses it more than we do. So there’s no gift there. There’s no skill. And also maybe it was just designed for the way that he thinks. So in your life, in your everyday life, not even talking about founding or being in tech when you use something and it doesn’t work the way that you think it should work, I wanna really encourage you to think maybe it just wasn’t designed for me instead of I’m not good at this. And then if I could be so bold is to ask you to share this message because there are a lot of women who are not in this room today who think that all the time, I’m just not really that good at this.

Ellen (00:42:46):

Instead of, it wasn’t designed for me. And this is why I think it’s so important for you to put your products out into the world so that fewer and fewer people think it wasn’t designed for me. Now we all know about the funding shortage. This is an issue. This is a 2021 stat, 2.4% of total invested venture capital startup in the US goes to solo women founded. Not the entire problem, but part of the problem is we don’t have enough women founding companies. So if you came here today and you’re like, I’m a woman in tech, this sounds really interesting, but I’m not really gonna start a company. I wanna challenge you. I wanna challenge you that maybe it’s your turn, maybe it’s your time to step up and start a company. Maybe it’s exactly the right time for you to build your tech company for you to grow to a billion dollars and ask Catherine today for some money to fund it.

Ellen (00:43:39):

<laugh> being techy is really just about problem solving, deep thinking for sure. Empathy, project management. These are all things you’re doing anyway. And I know you know a lot of women out there who are doing that. That’s what it means to be techie. So in summary, I know I’ve talked about a lot of things today. <laugh> believing in yourself, a tech stack, all sorts of things. But this is your playbook. If you’re like, I’m ready Ellen, you have convinced me because you, I have never met a person who gets so excited about technology as you do. Then I wanna tell you, this is your playbook. This is how to get started. So before you even go get a quote, before you talk to a developer, remember to believe you are techie and my friends, if you share that message with other people, it’s pretty funny.

Ellen (00:44:32):

You hold yourself accountable, right? You’re like, I can’t say that. I can’t say I’m not techie cause I’m telling all these other people. So you are techie and share that and then remember that you’re the expert. Nobody’s fixating on your problem with your unique solution the way you are. They’re not. You are the expert. Know your customers, do your customer research, know them, know their pain. Believe that you can solve a problem that they have and define it from your unique perspective. And once you’ve done that, your playbook is trust your development team. So start building those relationships early. It’s kind of like a VC relationship. You wanna really know them. You really wanna deeply understand that there’s a communication. Technology is a lot about communication and then decide how involved you wanna be. But believing you are techies first and deciding from that perspective.

Ellen (00:45:25):

If you wanna pay people more money to do more of the work so you can focus on your business, that’s a great strategy. It’s not the only strategy, but it’s a viable strategy. Just know that your product vision is communicated and defined well. And then, um, remember my friends, you’ve gotta build an mvp. So quick tip on this. Confine, constrain define you are going, as you go through this process, you’re gonna wanna do everything. You’re gonna wanna have so many things in it. I like to just say keep a Google doc, a version one or version 2.0 and just write down, just type out save the features that are not for today that are gonna prevent you from launching. They will come out into the world and launch with an mvp. You’re gonna make a decision if it doesn’t hurt, if you haven’t cut out some things like I cut out some slides I wanted, if it doesn’t hurt a little bit, you haven’t trimmed enough. And then remember to build a product that’s maintainable that other people, you can find people to maintain it. You can find people who can continue to scale and grow your technology and finally evaluate multiple valid options. Someone who has spent time with you to understand you, your perspective, your unique approach, and has taken the time to give you a quote on what effort we’ll take from them to give you what you want. So remember, what does a tech founder look like? She looks like you. Thank you so much. You are techie.

Ellen (00:46:53):

So let’s do some questions. And my daughters here are going to throw or bring you a shirt depending on your athletic ability. And uh, we do a lot of football at my house so it um, I would love to take some questions from you and it’s totally fine with me. If they’re very specific I’ll do my very best to answer them. Yes, I just need a quick drink of water cause I

Speaker 5 (00:47:16):

Question. Uh, thank you so much. You’re welcome. Um, my question is, if you do have a desire to level up your technical expertise, what are some courses or some, uh, some curriculum that we could review or,

Ellen (00:47:29):

Yeah, so I mean that’s gonna be a hard question cuz I have curriculum on it. So it’s, it’s hard for me to recommend someone else’s. But, um, first know the problem you are trying to solve because you will learn so much more if you instead of theoretically learn tech, actually do the tech on the thing you’re trying to solve. Does that make sense? So, um, even in my courses, the way that I walk it through it is that you pick a project regardless of if you’re founding a company or just learning a skill in development or in, um, UX design. It’s, it’s just important that you start with that and then applying things to that project is a much better way to learn. Because otherwise if you say, okay, I’m gonna learn, um, Ruby on Rails, okay, let me just go learn it. No, it’s never ending.

Ellen (00:48:18):

And so the way to know if you have the right tech skills is not if you know every line of code that’s out there, which, um, I’ve found a lot of women wanna do. But instead it’s have I created something in the world? Um, and that’s actually how I, I learned Ruby on Rails. So, um, I start, I, when I was staying at home with my kids, I founded a company and I didn’t know how to, I was, I was a developer, but I didn’t know Ruby on Rails and I just did it with this one project in mind. It’s so much better because otherwise what you end up with is a, is a tic-tac toe event. So yeah. Um, I will say Khan Academy is fantastic. Khan Academy. Yeah.

Hilton (00:48:58):

Hi, how are you Helen,

Ellen (00:49:00):

You just wanna us shirt don’t you, Karen <laugh> ask

Hilton (00:49:03):

You, um, I just wanna ask you, I saw the word, um, that your founder of techy company Yeah. I just wanna know if you help or advise founders what do you do? How you can help?

Ellen (00:49:20):

Yeah,

Hilton (00:49:20):

This Yeah. Audience. I know you do because you help me a lot, <laugh>. So I just, I wanna ask you what, uh, do you can do to help others Yeah. What your services

Ellen (00:49:32):

Are, right? So, so your techie is, um, I have a, a membership where you can learn skills of UX design and development. So that’s, that’s what that is. And, um, with, and so that’s an online presence and I’m, I’m happy to, you know, share that with you and you guys can, you can go there, you can listen to the podcast, you are techie with Ellen Tomi. It’s very motivational. Um, I think the next one I’m coming out is stop yelling at your husband. So if that’s interesting to you, um, because I talk a lot about, I didn’t really go into all the techy mindset, but it’s, it’s a really a big passion of mine that not enough women quite understand exactly how to be, um, technical. And it’s really all about specifics and that’s why I talk a lot about that. So with Fugitive, if you really are interested in building a tech product in the world, I’m also happy you can, you can send me an email. I’ll also, I’ll be happy to do a free product strategy session with you on your product. And so, um, I’m happy to, to do that and to help you move forward and to understand, um, you know, where you are in that process and what you should be thinking about around your specific problem. And so that’s another way I’ll answer that. Yeah.

Hilton (00:50:44):

Um, thanks for your presentation.

Ellen (00:50:45):

You’re welcome by

Hilton (00:50:46):

The way. Um, my question is, what are some of the barriers of launching a web MVP versus a an app of like m mvp?

Ellen (00:50:56):

Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, that’s a great question. So the barriers are, it’s a lot about skill. So, um, app development is just a little bit more nuanced and, and quite honest, a little bit trickier. Um, but in terms of the actual implementa, I have so many thoughts on this, I’m like, I’m not exactly sure how to tell you. Okay. So I will tell you my opinion that having one code base is not really that important and in fact can slow you down. So, so the barriers for for it are understanding who your audience is first and what’s gonna be a better way to launch. And then of course, you know the platforms, right? So you do kind of need, you have to, you have to be in the, in the IO store and the, and the Google Play store. And so that’s a challenge.

Ellen (00:51:49):

But in terms of like technology, what is harder? It’s, it’s really a, a little bit of one-to-one based on skill. And I think the bigger trick is that you wanna, you want an MVP that you can launch and get out into the world with a, uh, with a focus on where the customers are gonna find you. One full code base is not necessary, but you don’t have to write two full code bases, if that makes sense. It’s really foundationally you’re gonna be looking at a similar thing and you also are gonna have a similar but not exactly the same, um, UX presence. So I do think that depending on your money, your financial, um, experience and your financial investment that you can make, it can make sense to launch both. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. It just kind of depends on how you wanna go out into the world. And, you know, some, some products are really only at base, it’s only gonna work that way. Um, but you are going to exclude certain people. I would say that’s gonna be a barrier if your solution is all inclusive and you have to, you have to pick one, sometimes you have to do that. It, it is a very, it is a knowledge and money decision basically. Um, anything is possible in technology. And so that’s a great question. I can’t wait to hear what your idea is.

Hilton (00:53:11):

Thank you. Um, my question is for somebody to start to enter into like tech company. So you mentioned about investing on yourself and spending money on yourself in terms of your learning and experiences. Um, I think one struggle that I have is personally is just validating the idea that you have. Cause you don’t have one idea and you have multiple

Ellen (00:53:34):

Ideas. Yeah.

Hilton (00:53:34):

But when you’re beginning, you are kind of scared to invest that money in yourself. So how do you overcome with like, on that specific struggle that you face in terms of just validating thousands of factors you have in Richmond is actually going

Ellen (00:53:49):

<laugh>? Well, if you have thousands, that could take a while. But, um, I will say, I, I, I will go a little bit back into making a decision. So, um, this is very common and I would say that you are just at a stage where you’re kind of examining how you wanna show up in the world. And so you are going to, you’re going to wanna do customer research and that’s pretty much what everyone’s gonna tell you is kind of the starting point. And you can do things like, Hey, I’m gonna have a freebie and if you sign up for my list, I’ll see if there’s some interest there. Um, but you do have to pick one. And so it’s when you invest in yourself and you develop your relationship with yourself. I will tell you, I think journaling, it’s one of the things I teach a lot.

Ellen (00:54:34):

Journaling is so important. Um, my coach Deb told me that like, I don’t know, a long time ago, like eight years ago, I’ll never forget, I called her and I was like, just going on and on and on and on. And she’s just so brilliant. And she’s like, Ellen, you are so smart. You know what I think you should do? And I mean, I sounded like a moron on the phone, I’m telling you. And she’s like, you should write this down and just journal about your feelings. I mean, Deb is the best, I can’t even tell you. And she coached, she’s coached some of the, some of the best founders I know. So journaling about what you care about and what you believe and what you think is, is right in the world is a really important part of that. And once you feel like you can make a decision to run a test, run a test for six weeks, what do, what information can you get in six weeks that is going to be a very important part of your strategy to, um, do customer discovery.

Ellen (00:55:26):

And just one quick plug on that, I think customer discovery is best on when you write the questions and other people ask them, you can be one of the people, but if you are the only person, you are going to be biased in your own way of doing it. And so definitely a friends will do it if you have siblings, I have an extra one if you need one. Uh, my kids have extra ones, but you know, you ask people to help you and get that information and then if it’s a pain point, you people won’t wanna stop talking about it. That’s kind of when you know you struck a cord. Does that help? Cool. Are we outta shirts? We have one more. Okay. Yeah.

Hilton (00:56:07):

Excuse me. Mm-hmm. Um, I’m electronic engineer and I want to build a product that

Ellen (00:56:14):

Do it.

Hilton (00:56:15):

<laugh>? Yeah. The course. I’m a student at Georgia.

Ellen (00:56:19):

Nice. Great.

Hilton (00:56:20):

And I want ask you question, is it harder to build a product than you wanna invest your customers to bring it out to your, um, retailers?

Ellen (00:56:34):

So do you mean is it hard to invest in a physical product than a tech product? Ask, ask me again.

Hilton (00:56:40):

Like a tech, that technology, um, is it harder to build a product that you wanted to bring out your customers to sell it to your retail, to your technology?

Ellen (00:56:55):

So you wanna sell the product through technology Yeah. And through and to, to retailers. Yeah. So is it harder than what, than what than, than if it’s not a physical product or if you’re using the tech. If the technology is the product,

Hilton (00:57:11):

Technology is the product,

Ellen (00:57:14):

Is it harder? I mean, I’m gonna say yes because I don’t have experience in the physical product. And so, but if that is your experience and that is your, there are, so there are additional technical complexities when you have physical hardware and then you’re doing technology with it. I would say that’s true. So it can be a little bit more expensive, but so what if it’s harder? It says no, it’s not a reason not to bring it. And it sounds like that’s what you’re interested in and what you’re passionate about. Um, but selling it through technology, that part of what you described doesn’t sound harder. To me. That sounds like a really smart idea and a great way to reach people. Cool. Thank you so much. Oh good. Great. Yes. Hi. Hi.

Hilton (00:57:58):

Whoa, that was loud. Hi, um, Helen. Thank you. This was amazing.

Ellen (00:58:02):

<laugh>. Oh good. Uh,

Hilton (00:58:02):

I have a question on the learning piece. So a question like what architecture should I use for my product? Yeah. As you’re, you know, you’re Googling and researching <laugh>, how many hours, like, I’m just curious how many hours, if you’re a founder and you’re trying to figure that out, how many hours should you expect for that to take? Is that like a 10 hour project or a 40 hour project, or a four hour project?

Ellen (00:58:28):

I have so many thoughts on architecture. It that, that it’s a little bit hard. So I mean, you shouldn’t do that on your own if you’re not, if you haven’t written code, you shouldn’t be designing your architecture. And I also have this thing where people will show me that their development team, she has this nice little diagram of how their architecture is set up. And then I kind of laugh cuz that’s how I started at Accenture when I was like 22. They’d have me build these architectures and there’d be a little database here and there’d be a little database here, whatever. And the thing is that architecture is complicated because it’s, it’s a vision of how your product should, um, function at its most basic level. And so not everything can be a picture. And so I would actually say that if your expertise, if you’re a non-technical, we call them domain experts, you’re a domain expert in your world, I would not, you are not going to be able to just Google and figure out your architecture.

Ellen (00:59:20):

You’re gonna wanna talk to an expert who has actually built architecture before for this is the key for a product that is similar to yours in some way. So if you have hardware components in your product, you’re gonna want someone who’s worked with hardware and software connectivity together. If you have a product that is a FinTech and it’s gotta work with a lot of different payment processing, you, you, you wanna, you wanna talk to someone who’s done that type of work before. Because at its fundamental level, I didn’t go into this, but that’s why people spend so much on hosting is because the architecture isn’t streamlined. And there’s, I mean you can like research it and you can be like, oh, containers and Kubernetes and Oh yeah. And that honestly, like how the code is put into those is what matters. How the algorithms are designed, um, how the OB objects are designed. And so that’s just a very layered approach. And so I really would encourage you yes, to look to Google the words you don’t know and to ask your developers. But I would really encourage you to understand and talk to pe bring people into your purview who have done something. Just try to look at what the similarities, like what’s hard about your product. Find someone who’s done something hard, similarly hard in that way.

Ellen (01:00:45):

Oh great. Hello. Hi.

Hilton (01:00:47):

Um, thank you. Um, I have a question about networking. Um, I just started at school and I’m a slight introvert. Don’t really like talking to people.

Ellen (01:00:56):

Oh, okay.

Hilton (01:00:57):

I’m here

Ellen (01:00:58):

Though. Okay. Thank you for coming.

Hilton (01:01:00):

Um, yes. So it’s like I have, like you said, a thousand ideas in my head and when I think of something, I always keep it to myself. I don’t tell nobody until likes come true. So one of my professors said, you know that networking is very important when it comes. I you Yeah. So I give it to myself. Yeah. I don’t tell nobody anything until it comes true. Yeah. Um, when you started, did you network before or did you network after and say, Hey guys, we gotta come to me, come check me out. Or, you know, before like, hey, I’m thinking about starting, you know, so I’m scared of doing that again. Only when it comes true is when I’m like, okay, you guys come shop with me. Okay.

Ellen (01:01:38):

Okay. Thank you for sharing that and for being an introvert, I’m married to an introvert and so we have a lot of discussions like this. So the first thing I would say is don’t do what I do. I’ll teach you to do what you should do. Okay? So I’m an extrovert. This brings me energy. I love hanging with people. I can talk all night after this. Like if I go to an event at night and then I come home, my introvert husband’s like, are you done yet? Like, I am jazzed baby. I am jazzed. So it’s just not a problem for me. But that doesn’t mean that networking isn’t available to you. What is available to you is to show up as your authentic self. And so what I don’t want you to do is to try to be like me cuz it’ll drain you of energy.

Ellen (01:02:16):

Instead, what I want you to do is to, so you, you’ve actually asked me a few different questions in this. Um, and it’s brilliant. You want to do your customer research so that you understand that the thing that you’re working on, and when you do customer research, you’re asking about pain. You’re not asking about how someone else would solve the problem that you’re gonna be an expert on. And so when you do your customer research, you are going to feel, you are going to have a knowing inside of you that there is a real problem that can be solved in this world. And that piece is important because what I don’t want you to do is to go onto the world and say, do you think I should do this? Do you think I should do that? They’ll crush you because everyone will have an idea on that.

Ellen (01:03:01):

So first you wanna do that, so is customer research networking a little bit, but you get to talk about what you like, you’re asking people and if they don’t wanna talk to you because they don’t think it’s a problem, there are two things. Either it’s not really a problem or there’s someone else you should be talking to. So that’s the first thing I would say to you is to, to start to build that piece of it so that you can go into networking events, um, with a knowing, with a confidence that you feel good about your problem. And you don’t have to share it with people who maybe will kind of, um, not be supportive of it. And there’s some evidence of that. I, I, I’ve read a book, it’s called, um, hell Yes or No by Derek Silvers. Derek Silvers, sorry, severs. He was on Tim Ferris.

Ellen (01:03:43):

He also came on my podcast just so you know. So, uh, I um, I think it’s fantastic. And he’s like, you keep that in, you keep that inside. You don’t share it with the world until you’re ready. But there’s a balance there, right? So the next thing that I would say to you is, so what I, um, I actually teach networking skills and I don’t call it networking, I call it building your community. And um, ATV does a great job of building community and not everybody does not. It’s not really that easy to build a community. It’s actually kind of challenging. So what I wanna encourage you to do is build your community of people that are gonna support you through that. And your community doesn’t have to be my community. We can just have different communities. I mean, you can be a mine. I’m totally cool with that because if you’re a founder, you’re definitely my people.

Ellen (01:04:26):

But my point is that you wanna build it in a way that works for you. And so while I don’t think, um, that advice is bad that your professor gave you, I do think that the nuance is hard. You wanna get around people and you’re in a good place here where people are gonna support your idea even if they don’t get it. And so I will tell you that if you tell someone and they don’t get it and they wanna help you, help you, I would run the other direction. And I would understand that there’s nothing wrong with you and all of us who’ve kind of gone through this. We’ve had those experiences maybe once a week, I’d say usually once a week. But I talk to so many great people, I try not to worry about those people who just don’t quite get it.

Ellen (01:05:05):

It’s okay. They’re just not, they’re just not your community. Do you know what I’m saying? So I would, I would do it that way. And then the final thing from being married to an introvert for 21 years is I would say do a lot of one-on one-on-ones. Because big groups are going to drain you. Save it for when it’s really important. Save it for when it’s really important, and instead talk to people one-on-one. And you’ll start to learn whether those people are in your community or not in your community. I hope that was helpful. I love it. Okay, do Hi, two more. What’s up Lisa? I love it. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Hilton (01:05:37):

Hi. Good everyone. Um, my question is, as a female ceo, female founder, yeah. How important do you consider it to be vulnerable?

Ellen (01:05:49):

Oh, to

Hilton (01:05:49):

Ask for help. Cause you wanna be confident, you need to know also how to ask for help. That’s part one. Part two, the resources you would recommend, uh, for technical, if you’re a non-technical founder, would you recommend also Fiber? Would you recommend Upwork, et cetera. But right. <crosstalk> the first question. I would love your talk.

Ellen (01:06:09):

You know, um, okay, so vulnerability. I, it’s so funny. I’m actually reading Brene Brown Born, uh, what is it? Born to Lead. I don’t know how, I haven’t read her before. Like, I’ve been quoting her for years and I’m like, maybe you should read her book. So anyway, a actually we had it cuz my husband read it, but the point is I’m reading it. So she talks a lot about vulnerability. Um, my husband actually works for Pat Lynch. He has written a lot of books. He’s written Five Dysfunctions of a Team, and they talk a lot about vulnerability. I think vulnerability, um, you know, that’s a really, like the workforce should thank women for that. Like that. We definitely bring that piece to it. Um, being vulnerable to ask for help is, I would just say something that I, I’m working on. I’m like right there with you that we think we can do it all.

Ellen (01:06:53):

And, um, but we can’t. And it’s super important that not only being vulnerable about what we, um, what we need help with, with the level of help that we need, right? So I got Megan, she’s filming me here, and she’s like, what speakers do you kinda look up to? And I was like, I wanna give you someone who’s maybe more moderate, but it’s Tony Robbins and Mel Robbins and I’m going Big baby. You know, like, so, so I mean, I don’t have to say that that’s my vulnerable space is that I want something big, right? And so being vulnerable about be believing that, you know, Catherine, one of the reasons I met Catherine O. Day, I saw a clip on her and she’s like, I think we need to have 10 women unicorns. And I defined that as 1 billion. I’m like, I wanna talk to that lady.

Ellen (01:07:42):

Absolutely. And so the the thing is like being vulnerable about wanting to, to make it big and that that’s serious. So when someone tells me like, I’m gonna build a hundred million dollar company, I’m gonna build a billion dollar company, um, take that seriously. Like I just got chills that like, you can do that. You, you, you are doing that. So like, I mean, I totally, that’s important to, to not only be vulnerable with what we need help with, but the level of help to make it big. Um, you know, fiber and Upwork. I mean that’s, that’s tricky because one of the things that I do is I have a lot of trust in my developers and I know that people have built companies around finding the right work. Like, lemme put it to you this way. There’s good and bad on Fiber and Upwork. It’s not like it, it’s knowing your specific problem and can they solve it? There’s good and bad. It’s not really like the platform is inherently going to serve you up the right thing. And so even that piece, you need technical knowledge. And so that’s where trusting your development team, trusting people in technology, building those relationships and learning, um, that’s gonna be an important component and that’s part of the vulnerability too. More questions. Okay. These are great you guys. I love it. Hi Heather. Really

Hilton (01:08:55):

Awesome.

Ellen (01:08:55):

Yeah. Oh good. I’m glad. I’m glad.

Hilton (01:08:57):

So cool. So I have a question. Some of my questions are answered. Thank you everyone. <laugh>. Um, and then I had a couple of thoughts. So I, I did it for five years. Yeah. Um, I went into it knowing nothing. Um, and I, by the end, I had multiple certifications, Microsoft and, and plus a plus certification.

Ellen (01:09:17):

Awesome.

Hilton (01:09:18):

But, um, I don’t do that anymore. However, I was just talking recently, uh, over ice cream with a woman in Florida who got her doctorate in computer science around women and technology, and she’s 80, she just turned 80.

Ellen (01:09:31):

Stop it. I love her. I love it. I love it.

Hilton (01:09:35):

Yeah. And so we were talking about, you know, women in tech and I worked actually, like right there in the building is, uh, capital City Plaza, and I was an IT person for a company called <inaudible> Works. Um, and it, which was a killer website back in the day for tech, for looking up like tech stuff. Um, and so I learned everything, but one of the biggest things that, that, so it’s helped me all throughout my career, right? Everything I do. But yeah, one of the biggest takeaways from that is, you know, before that I would, I would just get intimidated by the remote control, which by the way, quick note, generally it’s the input

Ellen (01:10:12):

<laugh>, I love it.

Hilton (01:10:14):

Just press input and get to the right

Ellen (01:10:17):

Input. Hundred percent. A hundred percent endorsement. Yeah.

Hilton (01:10:21):

Um, but <laugh>, but so the, the, it’s, it’s, it is about getting specific mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Like you’re saying, right. Is, and so with tech, um, instead of looking at a column saying, I can’t do that, it’s about saying, okay, I’m not gonna just say, okay, I’m afraid of this. This is not, I don’t, this is not me. I can’t do this. Yeah. Because I did that at first and then I was like, no, I, I’m the IT person here. I gotta fix this. Right? So it’s about saying, okay, well what’s the problem? Like, so you’re simple problem solving, what’s the problem? Identify what the problem is. Okay, well what, when did the problem start? Like, what’s changed? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what changed causes problem. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So it’s getting really specific and stepping back and looking at it kind of holistically. And, and the, the biggest part of it is saying like, I can do this. Like I can fix this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so at that, that, that kind of resonated with your get specific message, right? Because it’s, I think dual purpose. Yeah. It can be super, you know, high level when you’re concepting. Right. And then granularly problem solving, like day-to-day problem solving, jumping through the hoops for sure. Um, anyway, and my question is around market research, so, okay. Um, I think there’s, you know, there’s so many resources when it comes

Ellen (01:11:39):

To market resources

Hilton (01:11:41):

Or market

Ellen (01:11:41):

Research. Yeah.

Hilton (01:11:42):

Do you have a

Ellen (01:11:43):

Recommendation? I do. Okay, cool. I’m worried I’m gonna say her name wrong. So she’s a Canadian, I’m from Detroit, so I, and my husband has Canadian relatives. I feel like I’m Canadian. I love Canadians. Canadian students are so nice. They’re so much nicer than us. So anyway, um, her name is Caitlin. I think it’s Bourge, like B O U R G O I N, something like that. And, and so she, um, but I can get that to you if you want. Uh, I sh I think I paid like $80 for her, um, like her question list and her course, even though I, um, have done my own market research. And so that’s an example of something where I felt really good paying for money to see how I could level up in my customer discovery and in my market research. I think it’s really good to, um, have a lot of, and she was a founder, so I always, you know, I don’t know. I love the founders. I guess I’m want everyone to be a founder. There’s just so many things you learn about yourself and about life. So that’s the one I would recommend. And I can make sure to get you her name on that. Um, but definitely she, she would be the resource that I like. How about, cool.

Hilton (01:12:44):

Yay. Yay.

Ellen (01:12:49):

Thank you. Hey,

Ellen (01:12:51):

Hey if you enjoyed listening to this podcast you have to sign up for the You are techY email list. Imagine being in the tech job of your dreams. Join me to get the strategies training and never-ending support to get hired. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I’ll see you next time.