You are techY podcast

Ellen (00:00):

You are listening to the You are techY podcast, episode number 161.

Voiceover (00:10):

Welcome to the, You are techY podcast where it’s all about growing in your techy-ness. So you can find the tech job of your dreams. And now your host technology learning coach Ellen Twomey.

Ellen (00:27):

Hey moms, are you trying to break into tech? Are you wondering what skills you really need to get hired and how those skills can be worth $45 an hour? Not that $25 an hour you thought when you first started thinking about going back to work? If so, then the You are techY membership is for you. Our combination of courses, coaching and community, come with a mentor support. You need to keep moving forward into your tech career. It’s like no other membership available. We have the exact skills employers are looking for. You learn how to maximize your income with portfolio ready skills that hiring managers are seeking, not to mention the steps you can skip. So you don’t find yourself down that endless tech learning rabbit hole. Join me as we walk you step-by-step through the getting hired process in tech. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I can’t wait to see you in our membership

Ellen (01:15):

Welcome to the show. Today we’re talking about imposter syndrome. Yay. How much fun is that? I actually, I know this is a pretty popular topic with a lot of y’all out there and I have avoided talking about this for a, for many podcast episode. And the reason I’ve avoided it is in my world, in my space, in my experience, I, it’s been a little bit overdone. I’ve heard it so many times and I didn’t really think I had anything to add on the topic because I think that imposter syndrome is a little bit high level and everything that we talk about here and, that I’ve taught on and taught on tech is it’s much more specific and really not as high level. But I heard Seth Godin on Whitney Johnson’s podcast, disrupt Yourself and I, he was talking about imposter syndrome and I decided that I do have something to say on it.

Ellen (02:15):

And Seth this great, he always challenges the way I think about education and learning. And of course love Whitney. She does great work, super interesting. So I will link to that and the show notes. So one thing that I think is a really important piece in imposter syndrome is that if you are doing something that requires growth, right? You are stepping into a new version of yourself and so many of you listening are getting hired in tech, but then you’ve gotten hired. So now what’s next, right? So then after my students, I can tell you that after they get hired in tech, oftentimes they wanna work on financial peace in their life or relationships in their life or their surroundings. Maybe they wanna level up their home or do a remodel and then quite frankly they wanna to grow in their career. Like, okay, I got hired, but now how can I be great at this?

Ellen (03:02):

How can I be, you know, advanced in my career? So those are some of the things that come up. So, you know, there’s always something in our life that we can be striving for and a goal and to really push ourselves. And when growth is needed, there’s always going to be the opportunity for imposter syndrome and to feel like we are not the person who is being called to do the task that we’re being called to do. So I want to talk to you about how it’s okay that you feel that way and then how we can kind of work through it and what it really means to be an imposter. And so the term, fake it till you make it is very common. And I’ve been given this advice too, and I think it is well-intended advice that’s very unhelpful. So when we are, let’s say conquering imposter syndrome, faking it till we make it is a bad strategy.

Ellen (04:02):

So that can really harm us internally and personally, it might get us through the moment, it can get you through the moment, but it really can hurt you personally and leave you with feelings that happiness or really almost like a painful level is part of growth. And growth does require discomfort, but it does not require unhappiness or typically or pain. So it doesn’t have to be that path. And so I would encourage you that faking it till you make it is not a helpful solution. So if that’s true, then how do we conquer imposter syndrome or move through imposter syndrome?

Ellen (04:48):

So I think acknowledging the first piece that I said that when we have growth, we are going to feel like when we are shooting for growth, we have a goal. We want to become a different version of ourselves. That requires that we think about ourselves in a new way, which can often make us feel like an imposter. So the first piece to that is that if we can break down and not view ourselves as an imposter, that’s a much more helpful way to pursue this. So what do we wanna do? We wanna step into that new version and step into that discomfort. When we step into that, we realize I’m uncomfortable in the moment, but I will not always feel that way. I can show up in this discomfort today and I might feel uncomfortable today and tomorrow and the third time, but by the fourth and fifth and sixth time, I’m not gonna feel like that.

Ellen (05:45):

It’s actually gonna feel different for me. It’s not gonna feel the same way. And oh, by the way, as I continue to show up, and maybe it’s 10 or 12, I don’t know how many iterations, but as by the way, as I continue to show up, what I’m doing is building the skills necessary to convince my brain and really to become that in, in reality, I’m not an imposter. I am that new version of myself. So I no longer am new to tech. I’ve grown in my tech career. I’m no longer someone who wants to get out of debt. I am out of debt and I am saving for retirement. I’m no longer someone who lives in this home. I live in a new home, in beautiful home with the space that I need in the neighborhood that I want for the schools, for my kids.

Ellen (06:30):

So, so those are, that’s what you’re stepping into. And the question is, how much discomfort are you willing to feel along the way? And as long as you’re willing to engage with it and accept that I’m not an imposter, I’m just new, right? Kind of going back to this concept of new, I’m new and I’m gonna do it and I’m gonna do it again and I’m gonna do it again and I’m gonna keep showing up until it works. That’s part of this piece. And so if you want to say, well, I feel like an imposter, but I don’t think that is actually going to help you. But whatever it takes to keep showing up in that way, that is how you actually conquer it. That’s how you actually overcome the imposter feeling is you become that version, you become that goal of yourself. And not only are we stepping into it, but we are taking action around it.

Ellen (07:21):

Let me give you an example. So a couple of scenarios where you can feel like you’re not, you know, you’re not worthy. You guys, are you guys from my generation, Wayne’s world, we’re not worthy. Okay, sorry about that. <laugh>, if below 30, don’t worry about it. Or 35 when we’re in a room and people are talking about things and we just do not know what they’re talking about. Let’s, for example, say one of the 1 million tech acronyms, right? But we don’t know what people are talking about. Are we taking action through that? Are we asking the question? I’m sorry, what are you talking about? Now, actually, an acronym was a bad idea cuz if you can just Google that quickly. So save your questions for something bigger. But the point is that someone’s talking about a topic you don’t understand and so you’re gonna raise your hand, you’re gonna ask a question, you’re going to say, excuse me, actually we don’t raise our hands in the work world.

Ellen (08:06):

I don’t allow my children to raise their hands at the dinner table. I’m like, this is not school. I get why teachers need to do it. But in a workroom, in, in a meeting, you don’t have to raise your hand typically. So, but you ask a question, you say, I don’t really, can you explain what you mean by that? And chances are someone else wants to know that too. But even if they don’t, being willing to take action around that. So you feel like an imposter, you’re nervous cuz you’re like, whoa, what are you talking about? I don’t even get it. But you’re gonna take action through that and you’re gonna ask an uncomfortable question and say, you know, I could really use some clarification on that. That is taking action through discomfort. That is helping you conquer imposter syndrome. Now, another component of this is, you know, some of you are listening to me and you’re saying, okay, that makes sense.

Ellen (08:51):

I can totally do that. But here’s another important piece, and I even have a freebie on this, so we’ll link to the show notes. But it’s like how to solve your own tech question. So one of the things that is important when you’re getting started, just ask the question, don’t worry about it. But as you grow and improve, you wanna ask a better and better question. And what that requires oftentimes is a little bit of behind the scenes work. So are you taking action to learn about the topic at hand? And that’s what’s always tricky with tech, is that your topic, right? Are we learning UX or development? I mean, those are very broad in general. Usually it has to do with, are you learning about the problem that your product is solving and are you learning more about your product? Like it gets really specific.

Ellen (09:37):

And that is just something that you can’t grab off a YouTube, you have to like do your own work on it. And so again, going back to this imposter syndrome, are you sitting down doing the work? Because if you’re feeling super nervous about asking a question, well, at the beginning that’s normal. But if you’re still feeling super nervous three months in, don’t freak out, don’t worry about it. Just do more work. Do more work around that place that you have fear. So I just coached on this this week actually, and it’s, and it’s Marcus Aurelius’s concept of the obstacle is the way, and this is a little esoteric and kind of, you know, philosophy, but whatever the point is that the place where you have the fear that’s giving you a message. So maybe Tony Robbins is a better way to, he’ll say emotions are messages.

Ellen (10:23):

So that fear, it’s okay, but it is telling you that you need to do some more work on that specific thing. So let me be clear. Most of my students say tend to overwork and do a lot of different things. No one is saying that you’re lazy. What we are saying is that you may not be doing the right work. So the area that you most need to do the work on is the area you have the most fear on. That’s an indicator that you could learn more information. It’s not a hundred percent true, there are other reasons, but it’s usually fairly true that this is the area you need to do work at. Another piece in this. So in the imposter syndrome, when you’re feeling like people won’t help you, this is again kind of the obstacles, the way conversation. So remember, you need a community around you, you need a network, you need mentors, you need peers, you need all of those people in end, you need them to support you, to help you to go through the fear.

Ellen (11:18):

And when you do the actual work yourself, there is nothing more powerful. So if you’re thinking that, but if someone will show it to me, that is not going to help you overcome imposter syndrome as much as doing the work yourself, coming up against a roadblock, solving that roadblock, doing the work, solving it. And you might think, but it’s so easy for them. But you putting in the time to do that work will help you understand it at a level that is very different than consuming information from a video, from YouTube, from someone live by asking a great question. So yes, you wanna ask great questions, that’s important, and you wanna do the work yourself so that you understand what the important questions are. Now if that’s feeling cyclical, what I just talked about, if that’s something like wait or so, do we ask great questions or do we do the work?

Ellen (12:10):

Yes. And you wanna go through that, it’s a cycle. You wanna keep doing that cycle that is gonna move you up, as Whitney Johnson would say, move you through the S-curve. It’s gonna move you up in your intellect around it, and it’s going to reduce your feelings of imposter syndrome. So I like to say, think of yourself as becoming a master. And a lot of times my students don’t have that lofty goal. They’re like, I just wanna get a hurting tuck. I don’t need to be a master. But actually the way to break in is to just embody it and learn it and think about it and do it and have a little bit of an obsession over it in a way that builds your knowledge base to the point where you are the one who people are like, wow, she really knows her stuff, she really knows what’s going on.

Ellen (12:54):

The more time you spend in that cycle of doing the work and asking better questions and then going back and doing better work and then asking better questions, the more time you spend in that space, the more imposter syndrome will reduce. But remember, when you’re just starting out, that’s going to feel really uncomfortable. But as you keep cycling through that, doing the work, asking better questions, doing the work, do you just keep showing up the same way? And those feelings get reduced. You’re going to the same place, you’re going to the same environment, you’re going working with the same people, you’re doing all the same things, but it’s not feeling so overwhelming and you’re not doubting yourself so much. And so that really is an important piece to imposter syndrome. So remember to step into that. So you wanna do the action with full ownership.

Ellen (13:41):

You wanna do the action as you are building your own knowledge base, but you want to have the peer support and mentorship that you need to get you to take that action, not in such a fine line. Because think about it, if you’re doing the work, you might think, oh my gosh, I have a question. Let me just go call Raquel my mentor. She will know the answer. And while that’s all fine and good, an even better way to do this is to say, Raquel, I’m really working through this problem, this challenge that I have. You know, I could use your emotional support and what guidance do you have for me? So instead of going to her for the answer, go to her for the support and guidance. That’s a beautiful way to use your community. And talking a lot about being, you know, being the mentee and asking for mentorship.

Ellen (14:33):

But remember, you also wanna be a mentor and help people in that same way. And there is someone who is behind you. If you’ve already started, you’re getting hired process, maybe they’re still thinking about it. Whatever that relationship is, you being a resource for other people will also help you to overcome imposter syndrome because you understand and are communicating the value that you’re providing, you’re re communicating that out into the world. And so it’s like telling your brain, oh look, we do know something, right? Think that’s an important piece. So I guess I did have quite a bit to say on imposter syndrome. I’m kind of happy I waited this long to talk about it because when I say it’s overdone, I mean it is a real thing. It’s just, it’s just, I’ve heard it a lot. I think that sometimes we go to that place, we’re like, I just feel like an imposter.

Ellen (15:22):

But that is, that’s a problem to be solved. That’s not a throw your hands up and what do we do about it? That is a problem to be solved. You do not have to live your life that way. And I hope this episode has helped to guide you in that experience. Hey, I’ll see you next time. Thanks so much for being here.

Ellen (15:36):

Hey if you enjoyed listening to this podcast you have to sign up for the You are techY email list. Imagine being in the tech job of your dreams. Join me to get the strategies training and never ending support to get hired. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I’ll see you next time.