You are techY podcast

Ellen (00:00):

You are listening to the You are techY podcast, episode number 112.

Voiceover (00:09):

Welcome to the You are techY podcast where it’s all about growing in your techy-ness. So you can find the tech job of your dreams. And now your host, technology learning coach, Ellen Twomey.

Ellen (00:26):

Hey moms, are you trying to break into tech? Are you wondering what skills you really need to get hired and how those skills can be worth $45 an hour? Not that $25 an hour you thought when you first started thinking about going back to work? If so, then the You Are Techy membership is for you. Our combination of courses, coaching and community, come with a mentor support. You need to keep moving forward into your tech career. It’s like no other membership available. We have the exact skills employers are looking for. You learn how to maximize your income with portfolio ready skills that hiring managers are seeking, not to mention the steps you can skip. So you don’t find yourself down that endless tech learning rabbit hole. Join me as we walk you step-by-step through the getting hired process in tech. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I can’t wait to see you in our membership.

Ellen (01:20):

Katie Barriere is a mom and a curious self-driven UX designer with a passion for creating innovative user experiences that help people achieve their goals. Katie has made the journey from stay at home mom to fortune 500 FinTech UX designer. So I know you’ll learn a lot from her story. She loves generating ideas and using logic and creativity to solve complex problems. She has a broad range of tech skills, including development skills, and she specializes in user research and communicating with engineers. Katie is a You are techY alum with a passion for accessibility. She lives in Providence, Rhode Island with her husband, Dave, her son, Nathan, and their cats, Austin and Tesa. Katie, welcome to the show. All right. Tell us about your journey. How did you start out and then how did you end up where you are?

Katie (02:11):

Yeah, so I got started in tech after competing in a Google developer challenge. It was a program that Google offered with, you know, a hundred thousand people, just kind of completing different coding challenges and working together to complete a few projects. And they chose 1200 people I think, to participate in a fellow program, which was a front end development program. Uh, so I completed that program and completed a few different front end development projects, learned everything from HTML to React. And then I started doing some freelancing before enrolling in a full stack bootcamp and eventually found the You are techY program and developed my UX design skills. 

Ellen

Awesome. So I actually didn’t know that. I’m gonna be real clear, audience. Katie does not give herself enough credit. Let’s be clear. So there were a hundred thousand developers and then you were selected as one of 1200.

Ellen (03:10):

Yes. Oh my gosh. That’s incredible. That’s incredible. So that’s how your journey started. You were like, I’ll just start off by competing with a hundred thousand others. 

Katie: 

Yeah, pretty much. And I didn’t even know HTML at the time. 

Ellen: 

So really. So you had, so you knew no programming?

Katie:

None. 

Ellen: 

Oh my gosh. That’s unbelievable. And so then how did you eventually kind of morph your way into UX design? So you have very strong technical skills, we know, but like, how did you eventually figure out that like UX design was the path you wanted to go to? 

Katie: 

Well, I started researching design while I was actually freelancing, trying to improve a visual design of my sites, but really it was just the combination of creative problem solving that drew me to UX. And, you know, I just kind of stumbled upon the You are techY coaching program.

Katie (03:56):

And it just sounded like it would be the perfect thing for me because, you know, I was looking for really strong mentoring from, you know, seeing all the women in tech, kind of how I went down that path. 

Ellen:

Oh, that’s awesome. And I know that you have, I’m jumping a little bit, but I know that you have a focus on accessibility and that comes from your background. And I think it’s so exciting. Cause I remember like a long time time ago when you were like, I really would like to focus on accessibility. Do you think that’s possible? And now you get to do that in your job because this is such an important aspect of UX design, but oftentimes it, it gets pushed by the wayside. It’s not the primary thing. Can you talk a little bit about why you’re passionate about accessibility and then what that means in your day to day job?

Ellen (04:37):

Yeah, so I think my previous advocacy experience drives my for, you know, inclusive designs, I guess honestly, you know, the most important thing with accessibility is just that awareness and that inclusive mindset right now. I actually get to let do a lot of cool work with different users who are experiencing difficulties with accessibility and our product and just kind of making the experience accessible to them is just one of my passions. It’s just something I really enjoy. 

Ellen: 

Can you tell the audience a little bit about some of the accessibility concerns that UX designers just generally need to be concerned with? You know, someone who’s new might not quite understand what accessibility standards, how they impact users. So yeah, so, you know, web accessibility just means that websites, tools, technologies line to and develop so that everyone can use them. So we all need to do better with it, but you know, that awareness again is huge.

Katie (05:29):

So I would say contrast is probably one of the biggest things that I run into daily is making sure that your color palette is accessible. Uh, you know, there are simple tools plugins, you know, to do that within Figma and sketch probably Adobe as well. So for accessibility, we’re looking for, you know, versions of color blindness and things like that.

Ellen: 

Are there other concerns? What about different fonts? How do we help different users with different typographies and things?

Katie: 

 So obviously the size of the fonts is a, a big concern. Uh, a lot of products will have different settings for that, but built into the operating system. So being aware of that is huge. And, you know, there are other things to account for as well. Like loader impairments, we encounter that a lot, making sure that we cover all the bases with keyboard accessibility. One of the things that I think is important and I mean, when you’re talking about motor accessibility, there are also like temporary disabilities that people have in terms of usage, right?

Ellen (06:27):

It’s not just all permanent challenges. 

Katie: 

Oh, absolutely. You know, somebody could just have something as some, you know, it’s a minor as a broken arm, it’s a temporary disability, but they might not be able to use the product as easily, or even like just in everyday life. We use a lot of accessibility features just for reasons that are unrelated to disabilities. Like for example, using closed captioning when you’re watching videos in a crowded loud environment. 

Ellen: 

 I do that regularly, Katie. I do that.

Katie:

Yeah. I exactly you do that at my house. I do that at my house every Friday night we do movie night and I always put the closed caption on because I miss so many things cuz a kid will ask, you know, a question or whatever. And my husband’s like, can we turn closed, caption off? I’m like, no. And I, I don’t think my, I do not think my hearing is perfect. So I think I miss things and I love watching. 

Ellen: 

So every Friday, what, why is your house so loud? Is it the cats? 

Katie:

No, my son is a percussionist.

Katie (07:25):

I hedged earlier now and I was like, not percussion cuz my son wanted to, he should be brass, but he plays,but it was like he was into percussion. 

Ellen: 

Yeah. That sounds loud. I can see that. 

Katie: 

Yeah. I have a rainbow in my living room. 

Ellen: 

 So my gosh. That’s great. Okay. I love that. Thank you for sharing that because I do think people often are like, yeah, accessibility is important, but then it gets pushed by the wayside or we aren’t looking at it holistically or we’re just looking at it, you know, from kind of the standard mindset. So I love that. You said, well, yeah. What if you had a broken arm or there are just different accessibility standards that need to be met and making sure that yeah, the product is usable regardless of temporary or permanent disabilities.

Ellen (08:08):

I think that’s so fun. I love that. You’re doing that. All right. You have been interviewed a few times at your job. So many interviews and you love it. You love it. Just kidding. But so many people listening do not love interviews, so you’re in good company. So I would like to know, do you have, like, what are your two favorite questions? We call ’em secret weapon interview questions or just which two do you think new UX designers should be prepared to answer?

Katie:

So I honestly don’t have too many questions that I remember. Okay. Because honestly interviews are stressful and you mostly just remember how the people made you feel. 

Ellen: 

Oh, that’s great. Okay. Tell me more about that. 

Katie: 

So I’ve had some really bad interviews and I’ve had some really good interviews and the best interviews were always done with people who they were just basically trying to network with me.

Katie (09:07):

You know what I mean? They just were, you know, not looking at it from the lens of, you know, getting hired and just kind of thing. Like I was their friend and you know, just chit chatting with me and treating me like a real person. 

Ellen: 

Mm. Those are the best interviews. 

Katie: 

And actually that those interviews actually changed the way that I approach interviewing. And when I stopped trying to get hired and started focusing on networking instead, that’s when I started making progress. 

Ellen: 

That’s awesome. I think that’s good advice. I know we’ve talked about that before, but it can be hard. So did you have interviews where people like at the end of it, you were like, Ugh, I wouldn’t even wanna work there. Did you ever have those? Yeah.

Katie: 

 Oh yeah. I had terrible experiences, very degrading experiences when I first started into feeling for sure.

Ellen (09:57):

Wow. Wow. And so do you, are you sad? You didn’t get those jobs or take those jobs or no. So tell us a little bit about your current team. How did they make you feel when you got hired on this current team?

Katie: 

Oh, wonderful. Like they are just like so welcoming and they really take the time to get to know people’s strengths and they focus on those strengths and they basically go outta their way to make sure that person becomes the go-to person for that topic. 

Ellen: 

Wow. 

Katie: 

You know what I mean? And then they also make sure that you have enough time to, for that cross collaboration with designers throughout, like we have a chapter. So throughout that throughout the organization, basically where you can learn different skills from other designers. So if you are weaker in one area, you can build upon that skill.

Ellen (10:49):

It’s just a really nice way, you know, to approach the skill development aspect of design. That’s incredible because I think it’s so great to see that you like the people and that the interview process, it wasn’t so painful when it was the right environment. I mean, am I hearing that correctly? Yeah, that sounds really well. 

Katie: 

The interview was still tough. 

Ellen: 

Okay. So tell me about that. I think one thing that I wasn’t prepared for were panel interviews of which I did many. 

Katie: 

Yeah. Those are horrible. I, I think those are, yeah, that’s rough, but I think knowing about them going into it and knowing how to prepare yeah. Can be beneficial, you know, expecting at least four interviews for bigger companies. Yeah. So you’re, so the panel, when you showed up, there were like three or four people we session way more than that. Oh my gosh.

Ellen (11:38):

Okay. So way more than three or people like a dozen people.

Katie:

 Yeah. And anybody could ask you a question. 

Ellen:

Oh my gosh. That’s amazing. And so how do you feel? Well, you obviously did well, what was helpful to know going in or what was helpful? Like what was a helpful mindset to go into an experience like that? 

Katie: 

So my first one, I was what I can, would consider to be largely unprepared for such a big interview in terms of the, uh, portfolio presentation aspect of it. 

Ellen: 

Okay. So you’re presenting your portfolio. Got it. 

Katie: 

Okay. So, but I learned a lot from it. Yeah. And the second panel interview that these two larger companies was much more successful. Yeah. Because I like knew how to approach the process. Right. And they were actually in the same week, so it was kind of stressful. 

Ellen (12:27):

I love it. You did so much. Okay. So if you’re comfortable, I would love for you to circle back on this situation that you forgot about. But I didn’t. So you can tell me, but you did a ton of learning and you actually went to a bootcamp before you did. You came to You are techY and you were encouraged to market yourself. Is that true? 

Katie:

It’s true. Yes. 

Ellen:

Okay. So I’ve get, I’ve been getting this question. Okay. Well, how do I market myself? But you, you were encouraged to be something other than what you were. Can you just walk us through a little bit about that and how that influenced your path a little bit? 

Katie: 

Yeah. So after I completed the Google scholarship program and the front end development bootcamp, I enrolled in a full stack development program. It was kind of gimmicky and not the best environment for me.

Ellen (13:18):

That’s for sure.

Katie: 

Just, it was, um, very unorganized and the owner of the bootcamp encouraged me to be more extroverted in, in order to obtain any sort of tech job, you know?

Ellen: 

No. And we, and I laughed about that. I was like, I’m sorry, you’re in tech. And he wants you to be more extroverted, which, you know, I have been told my whole life that I couldn’t be in tech because I’m extroverted. They’re like, oh, you’re like people way too much to be in tech. It’s for introverts. And I just, I remember news told that I just blew my mind. I’m like, wait, I’m sorry, what? Cause that’s opposite. And so you did not do that. You did not use that strategy obviously. 

Katie:

I did not. No, definitely not. I mean, I love people and I love, you know, talking with people and, and learning about their behaviors and things like that. Like, but in terms of marketing myself and, you know, content creation and being extroverted and things like that, it’s just not much I stop at my, yeah. 

Ellen: 

So I think, I mean, you know, and I’m always preaching you, you did adhere to this, you said the networking aspect, I’m always preaching, networking, but, and now I’m calling it, build your community. I’ve changed my language around it. Cause I think that sometimes networking people are like so salesy, whatever. But I think that it’s important to know one of the things when you’re describing like how much you like your team and you’ve done work. And do you feel like you get to be you at work? 

Katie:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. 

Ellen: 

I think that’s beautiful. That was one of the things that I hated when you told me that story. It’s like, I don’t think that success is being something you’re not.

Ellen (14:50):

And then what are you gonna do then? You’re gonna just like fake it for the next 20 years. That’s not gonna be helpful. That’s gonna be stressful. Totally. So I love that. So, and you’re still an introvert, right? Yeah. most days, even though I know you were dying to do this podcast, I only had asked you 17 times like Katie, when you come now, then she got on. I’m like, are you in, she’s like, not really, but I will do it. I’ll do it. But I think it’s such an important story because number one, you need to celebrate yourself like you. And so I wanna say to you publicly, well, congratulations like you did it. And I was there. I know it wasn’t easy, but you did this and you should be very proud of yourself for what you accomplished. 

Katie: 

Thank you. 

Ellen: 

You’re welcome. And number two, I think it’s important that you are an example of like, you’re just you and it wasn’t easy.

Ellen (15:38):

You put in the work, but you get to be in an environment where you still get to be you every day. And I think that’s a, a scary thing, but I’d love to jump to the last question. You’ll be so happy. And so I’d love to hear, I just wanted to make sure that I got to celebrate you before we go. What advice do you have for a woman? Like take yourself back, you know, I don’t know what made you do the, the Google challenge or whatever, but take yourself back to before you knew HTML and you totally were not sure if it was even possible for you. Someone is there right now. They’re not sure. What advice would you give her? 

Katie: 

Probably don’t be afraid to put yourself out there and take risks because you’ll never feel ready for this work. It’s just a constant learning process. 

Ellen: 

And you would be shocked to see how many people are right there with you, even in the field. That is so good at, oh, I love that advice. That’s beautiful. Katie Barriere. Thank you so much for joining me on You are techY podcast.

Katie: 

Thank you for having me.

Ellen (16:31):

Hey if you enjoyed listening to this podcast you have to sign up for the You are techY email list. Imagine being in the tech job of your dreams. Join me to get the strategies training and never-ending support to get hired. Sign up at youaretechy.com. That’s Y O U A R E T E C H Y.com. I’ll see you next time.